Sur le même thème que "Linden Lab CEO stepping down [Second Life]"

A Letter to Second Life Residents

M Linden here. Many thanks to everyone who responded constructively with their concerns and suggestions about our Openspaces announcement. We’ve listened carefully and your feedback has led to some amendments to our original plan. Before I jump to the policy amendments, I'd like to provide some insight into our decision and then recap what we've heard from you. When the Openspaces product was originally launched, Linden Lab offered Island owners the opportunity to add Openspaces to their land for light use only –- such as ocean or park land. But we didn't build in and enforce specific, quantifiable performance limits on the Openspaces. Why? For two simple reasons: 1. As you know all too well, many things affect performance of a Sim in complex inter-related ways (i.e., scripts, prims, avatars, media). We were reluctant to limit the overall experience and your creativity by posing specific limits on all these variables – partly because Linden Lab has always been pretty free-form and believes in the innate goodness of Second Life Residents and partly because imposing limits require that we hire staff to enforce them. 2. We wanted to get this product to market quickly. Openspaces was wildly popular. Some Island owners added ocean and park land, as intended but many built empires – glorious builds, beautiful rental properties and other great things. Since land-owners co-habitate on CPUs, if one owner adds an ocean and one builds a carnival, the shared CPU gets overloaded. The ocean-loving Resident who followed the original intent suffers and we are called in to resolve the conflict. Second Life is much too large to do that. When we sorted through the good and bad in the many conversations, comment cards, emails, and calls, you shared many things but there were three consistent themes we can work with: 1. Those of you who used the Openspaces as originally intended — for ocean or park land — want that product at the original price point and are willing to accept clear restrictions on usage. 2. Some of you have built businesses on the Openspaces product, set your rental rates or built your groups and although you acknowledge you built more than was intended for Openspaces, a large and rapid price change is too much for you to absorb. 3. Some of you created builds that were between an ocean and a carnival and want some kind of “normal region lite” product – a lower price point than a normal region but with the ability to build a certain amount of content. We've launched three land products in the company's history: Mainland, Islands and now Openspaces. Because we have complexity everywhere else, we're loath to add a highly complex pricing structure. Nevertheless, it's clear we have to build a product mix and pricing structure that offers more flexibility. Here is how we are amending the price change: 1. We are going to retain the Openspaces product at its original price point and its original intended use (forest, water, etc.). We will have technical limitations to help regulate their use, initially avatar and prim limit restrictions, eventually event, classified and script limits. Those of you who chose to use the Openspaces as intended may stay at the US$75 rate, but will need to contact the concierge team to do so. 2. If you want more than an Openspace, we will offer you the choice of moving to a new product called Homesteads that is intended for light use such as low density rentals. For existing Openspace owners we will phase in the price increase for this new product over the next 6 months. Homesteads will also have technical limits for avatars and prims, and eventually script limits as well. * January 5, 2009 – non-compliant Openspaces will transition to Homesteads and the maintenance fees will go from $75 to $95 per month.  We will offer an educational discount to qualified educators on the new Homestead product. The discount amount will be the same as Private Regions, roughly 30%. * July 2009 — the maintenance fees for Homesteads will go from $95 to $125 per month For detailed information on these changes, please go to the Knowledge Base. We believe this is fair. Jack and I will join you in the forums throughout the day today to discuss this. Comments are closed on the blog, not because we want to limit dialog or free expression but because this is a conversation with Residents and the forums require log-in. This is a policy we are going to follow moving forward with all major announcements. Blog the announcement, express and discuss in the Forums. One thing I learned and others were reminded about in this process is that we have a very connected, passionate Resident base and we need to bring you into the dialog earlier, before putting forward these decisions. The input we received after Jack’s announcement was prolific and by-and-large very, very constructive. Second Life is at a size where 1:1 conversations are difficult and the forums are inadequate for full dialog. Office hours come up short, too. We have some thoughts on how to bring Residents into the dialog earlier which we will cover in a future blog post and Forum discussion. I'd like to close on this thought: An area of concern for Residents over the past year has been platform stability. Through the hard work of many, many people, including Residents, we have made great strides that are very well documented. Crash rates are down. Substantially. Period. And until this price change, we were riding high in user satisfaction so we know you have recognized and appreciated the improvements we've been making. Our breakthroughs in stability improvement are particularly noteworthy because our land mass increased enormously this year. And, a good part of that increase was from Openspaces. However, the original plan was to expand land mass but expand load at a much lower rate. But, Openspaces — in many cases — have been overloaded with content, scripts and avatars so our very substantial stability gains have come even with the unplanned load increase. We are deeply committed to making this the best virtual world platform in the world and we are making great strides. We’ve also demonstrated we can deliver on our promise of continual stability improvements – even in the face of unanticipated growth. I look forward to hearing from you in the Forum. Thank you for your candor, patience, restraint and willingness to work with Linden Lab and the Second Life community at large. Second Life is the wonder that it is because Linden Lab has always worked together – albeit sometimes imperfectly – with Residents to build this magnificent, bigger than life world we all love so much. Thank you. [lien] [EN]

Getting a Second Life Just Got Easier with Direct SLurl

20 Responses to “Getting a Second Life Just Got Easier with DirectSLurl” · 1 Darien Caldwell Says: September 18th, 2008 at 11:43 AM This is a wonderful development. SLURLs up to this point were of rather limited scope in their utility. I know this will be something many will find of great service. Good work. · 2 Ceera Murakami Says: September 18th, 2008 at 12:04 PM Now, can we have some way to pre-assign someone to a specific group membership? So, for example, if you are running a University class, you can give something to your students that will set them up with the new account AND set them up with group memnership, so they can access the group-only classroom spaces? · 3 Wanja Lubitsch Says: September 18th, 2008 at 12:09 PM Where’s the beef? I mean: what’s new about this?? I picture myself being new and looking on a sort of green and blue coloured map.. why should I pick any place from there? All looks the same… shouldn’t it have at least >some< markers there? In Google-Earth I can tilt and get an imagination of what’s on the ground, but not here, in this virtual world. And why is this website loading so slow? To make the newbies “get used to it”? · 4 Raudf Fox Says: September 18th, 2008 at 12:47 PM While I’m loving this idea, I have one serious question: Is it going to be easier for new users to download the client? To be honest, I think linking the download/install to trigger while the new user fills out the paperwork, so that way, the new user has everything to start. Then at the end of the paperwork, it triggers the client to start. This way, there’s less confusion. After that, if they haven’t figured out they need the client.. · 5 Marianne McCann Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:01 PM This is great… but… The place I’d like to send them to is not show on the map, due to the map itself being more than a year out of date. · 6 Dirk Talamasca Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:11 PM Ceera, Group Membership is coming soon. The ability to provide inventory is being re-evaluated. · 7 MONEY-PYRAMID.COM Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:22 PM When will teleports, money. & group chats stop failing? Linden Labs keep adding more & more things for Second Life & not fix the problems we have now? New features are nice but when SL don’t work worth a crap half the time your using it why keep adding more & more new things???? · 8 Buckaroo Mu Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:26 PM Does this mean that the maps on slurl.com will finally be updated, after 10 months of inactivity? Pretty please? · 9 Bob Bunderfeld Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:51 PM I have one small question, that perhaps you won’t run from this time Blue. Can you tell me just how Linden Lab arrived at this destination? I mean, did you conduct any studies with New Residents to ascertain what they were wanting? If so, how many New Residents were included? Comparingly, what was the Ratio of New Residents to the base population of Second Life? Please, once more I ask, describe for us all the great lengths that Linden Lab has actually traveled to arrive with this “proposed” change. It’s not that I don’t trust you guys there at Linden Lab, but I’m interested in the data, not how you have “confidence” in the procedures you use to arrive at a decision. I want to place my confidence within Linden Lab too, just help me figure out how I can. · 10 Ciaran Laval Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:53 PM I’m not quite getting this, what does a resident do on Slurl.com to get a teleport? · 11 Q&A: Linden Lab CEO Mark Kingdon on Second Life’s latest evolution » VentureBeat Says: September 18th, 2008 at 1:57 PM [...] was formerly the CEO of online creative/marketing agency Organic. Today, Linden Lab announced Direct SLurl, a way to maneuver straight to a Second Life location without logging into the world. We chatted [...] · 12 Conifer Dada Says: September 18th, 2008 at 2:42 PM Great idea, but best make sure there isn’t a website for Goguen Sandbox first!!!! · 13 Ceera Murakami Says: September 18th, 2008 at 2:45 PM @7: Thanks Dirk. Being able to pre-set a group membership and to provision inventory in advance would be invaluable for my University clients! Right now, we are having to set it up so they arrive via a landmark or slurl AFTER they have an account, and then they must interact with an inventory givier to get the stuff they need to start orientation for the University. Theoretically the “Registration API” can send a brand new account to a designated starting sim, but it can’t provision inventory or pre-assign attachments, the way the LL orientation does. · 14 Argent Stonecutter Says: September 18th, 2008 at 3:40 PM Ceera: you could use the encoded join/slurl link from the SLURL page (the hotlink on the page itself that starts with http : / / join . secondlife . com / ? slurl = gibberish) sending them to a location that’s otherwise unlikely to be visited, then have a scripted object there that calls llGiveInventory() when it detects a sufficiently new visitor arriving at that location. You could also have a website that generates a custom slurl (or join link) for each student, at a unique skybox location, and when they arrive you will immediately be able to identify them by the location they arrived in. · 15 Darien Caldwell Says: September 18th, 2008 at 4:30 PM I don’t think LL intends this to be a substitute for the Registration API, but rather as an alternative to the ugly “This URL type is not associated with a program” error you get if you don’t have Second Life installed. This way people who stumble upon a SLURL are actually directed somewhere meaningful, instead of just having some cryptic error presented. On the merits of this, it’s a great idea. If you try to turn it into something it’s not, I’m sure you can find all sorts of things to complain about it. · 16 Bob Bunderfeld Says: September 18th, 2008 at 4:31 PM Did anyone else read that Q&A our wonderful CEO gave today? Not in a Recession eh? Wow, it only took him three months to fall out of step with his community; isn’t that a new record at Linden Lab? · 17 Q&A: Linden Lab CEO Mark Kingdon on Second Life's latest evolution - Start-Up News | Internet Startups Says: September 18th, 2008 at 4:59 PM [...] was formerly the CEO of online creative/marketing agency Organic. Today, Linden Lab announced Direct SLurl, a way to get into Second Life from the web. We chatted with Kingdon about the state of Second Life [...] · 18 Rebekah C. Says: September 18th, 2008 at 5:26 PM This is fantastic! I frequently give SL tours to librarians and library staff. It will be so nice to give them a slurl so they can start their first SL adventure at the library archipelago where they will get plenty of help in learning about all SL has to offer. I think landing on Help Island (where there are frequently rude or intimidating people) turned off people because they never got to see what SL is really all about. · 19 LibraryTechie » Blog Archive » Second Life Just Got Better for Newbies Says: September 18th, 2008 at 5:48 PM [...] Labs announced today the new Direct Slurl. This is fantastic news for people who are trying to encourage people to [...] · 20 Ann Otoole Says: September 18th, 2008 at 6:08 PM Any bonus/reward program for running an advertising campaign (that serves on Linden Lab’s behalf) to attract more customers? We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

My First Two Months at Linden Lab

I've been with Linden Lab for two months and each day has surfaced something interesting — and often quite unexpected. So, what have I seen? Read on. Second Life has evolved dramatically but perception has not kept up with reality in five important ways: 1. Second Life users are more mainstream than many assume. It's not just tech-savvy early adopters or gamers. It's a much broader cross-section of society with a median age in the early 30's and nearly half the time spent in world is by women. 2. The diversity of use cases in Second Life is mind-boggling. If you were able to read every story around the world about Second Life, you'd see a tremendous variety of use cases presented – e.g., medical research and treatment, education, marketing, customer support…and the list goes on. 3. Second Life has an enviable business model. While some may have written off Second Life during our post-hype phase, Second Life has a business model most media, metaverse and social networking companies would kill for. We monetize unique users at many multiples of advertising based models. Plus, with a healthy and growing inworld economy of more than $330 million annually, our users are able to make real money and pay more than half of our fees with credits from selling Linden dollars that they earned inworld — by creating valuable content and providing valuable services. 4. Second Life's killer apps are just beginning to evolve. I've come to see a couple of use cases as future killer apps – namely virtual meetings and education. And, one simple feature – inworld voice – could be a significant product in its own right. Since launching the 3D spatial voice inworld, our users have logged more than 7.2 billion voice minutes making us one of the larger providers of VOIP services. 5. Second Life is leading the industry toward interoperability. Finally, some have said Second Life is a walled garden that will go the way of AOL. Second Life is opening up, so the risk of that happening goes down every day. It dropped pretty substantially recently with the big news on interoperability from the IBM/Linden Lab partnership. …Please read on as I expand on some of these points after the jump… The diversity of use cases in Second Life is mind-boggling. The “hype cycle” drives Silicon Valley and Madison Avenue to identify trends, amplify them and then abandon them relatively quickly. Virtual worlds, and Second Life specifically, benefitted and suffered from this highly amplified trend cycle. First came the hype, then the inevitable anti-hype. Now the conversation is more about the far-ranging and widespread set of activities that are happening in Second Life. Every business day, I get a summary of the mentions “Second Life” and “virtual worlds” received in the web and print press around the world during the last 24 hours. On a light coverage day “Second Life” might gets a couple of hundred mentions. These figures understate press coverage because they do not include television or radio. Television has a big impact. A single news story in Poland featuring Second Life recently generated the highest registration levels we've had in a single day this year. If you were able to read every recent article about Second Life, you'd see tremendous diversity in the use cases presented. Here are some “must-read” articles that show the incredible diversity of Second Life: · Massively Paralyzed Man Walks for the First Time in Second Life · Alcoholics Treated and Cured in Second Life · IBM and Linden Lab Announce Successful Teleport between virtual worlds · “Ignore Second Life at Your Own Peril” – Times Online · MTV's True Life features Second Life musician Keiko · Enterprising Musicians Seek Fame in Second Life · American Cancer Society's Virtual Relay for Life raises $200K in Second Life Second Life has an enviable business model. Most social media/social computing properties are struggling to build a business model (usually advertising driven) that can support their voracious appetite for hardware and bandwidth. Second Life is very different. Second Life is the only social media/social computing property where, at its core, user-generated content and the economy is the experience. As a result, our estimates place our monetization levels at 3-30x that of major media and social computing properties. With a healthy and growing inworld economy of more than $330 million annually, our users are able to make real money and pay more than half of our fees with credits from selling Linden dollars that they earned by creating valuable content. How so? All the content in Second Life (some 2.2 billion items, or 250 terabytes worth of data) is user-generated. Users buy and sell the digital goods they make using our virtual currency — Linden Dollar. We generate revenue by selling land (where merchants build stores, land owners rent houses, educators teach and companies meet) and collecting monthly maintenance fees (somewhat analogous to hosting services), charging for currency exchange services (Linden Dollars to US Dollars and vice-versa) and for search and classified ad placement. We also make money as the economy expands and we issue Linden dollars to stabilize the exchange rate. Another important comparison is with TenCent (QQ) – a Chinese internet company I have admired for quite sometime. Though our user base is much smaller, our virtual economy is of a similar size to TenCent. A recent Wall St. Journal article reported that TenCent's virtual currency (used by many of its 233 million regular registered users) garners about 45% of China's $900M virtual goods industry or $380M last year. This figure is very close to the value of virtual currency transactions within Second Life. Based on our Q2 results (see earlier blog entry) Linden Dollar transactions in Second Life are just over $336M on an annualized basis. Because the economy is intrinsic to the user experience, our much smaller user base generate nearly as much economic activity in absolute terms as TenCent. Plus user-to-user transactions in Second Life grew 12% in Q2 and user hours grew by 6% (for definitions see earlier blog post). Land ownership is a critical component of the Second Life economy and the news is very good on this front. Second Life's virtual world expanded by 45% in Q2. Resident-owned land now accounts for over 1.5 billion square meters of space in Second Life. Our growth in Q2 was due to a change in our land product and pricing strategy to make the purchase of land more accessible to first time buyers. The strategy worked. Finally, and this is the most interesting part of our model, the number of “profitable” inworld businesses continue to grow. By “profitable”, I mean that they had positive monthly Linden dollar flow primarily from their content creation activities in Second Life. What our residents build in Second Life demonstrates amazing imagination and creativity. Second Life is user generated content and collaboration on a scale that is unimaginable on the 2D internet. You can build a room, a house, a conference facility, an office park, a nightclub, a stadium, a game, a consulate, a hospital – and the list goes on. There are public lands for all to enjoy and private meeting spaces limited only to members of your group or company. All this creativity, combined with Second Life's vibrant economy enables tens of thousands of our residents are able to make real money plus pay more than half of our fees with credits from selling Linden dollars that they earned by creating valuable content. Because of our unique business model, Linden Lab is profitable. We are taking a big slice of this good fortune and investing it in a substantially improved experience for users – better registration and orientation processes for new users, an easy-to-use interface on our downloadable client, better tools for specific user groups, much better platform stability (more on this in a separate blog post) and improved outreach and customer support. Our users have been vocal about their needs and we are working hard to meet them Second Life's killer apps are just beginning to evolve. Even though the initial novelty has worn off for me, I am blown away by how effective Second Life is for meetings. I am fully convinced this will be a killer app. There is a lot of research on how communicating through an avatar enhances self-perception and risk taking. Many people who haven't experienced a Second Life meeting will say, “There is no substitute for meeting in person.” Try Second Life for a meeting. For years, I have been advocating and using videoconferences to connect with customers and employees. They cut down on travel costs, reduce a company's carbon footprint and eliminate time wasted in airports. Unfortunately videoconferences can be deadly boring. A Second Life meeting is the antidote to the tiresome videoconference. You have all of the tools you'd use in a real world meeting – plus you can use your computer to review data, do quick reference searches, look at spreadsheets, etc. and you have the ability to add text questions, responses, opinions and subtle interjections. In fact, just last week we learned about a new resident created collaborative browser for use inworld. Using the virtual meeting environment for education is an even more exciting killer app. Dozens of universities are buying land from us or working with other inworld providers every week and the pace is accelerating. Seventeen of the top twenty universities in the US have land in Second Life. To keep track with what's happening in education in Second Life, check out the SLED Blog. A list of recent news stories are below · The Christian Science Monitor discusses how students from all over the world are able to study abroad through Second Life. · Government Executive.com writes how government agencies like the center for Disease Control and Prevention are increasing their presence in Second Life to increase public awareness. · CNET reports that the San Francisco Exploratorium will be streaming live footage of a Solar Eclipse in Second Life expected on August 1st. · The Industry Standard reports that Cigna will try to make health education more accessible by creating its own island in Second Life. · ComputerWeekly.com discusses how the British Computer Society has launched an e-learning specialist group in Second Life. · The Dallas Morning News presents an article on using Second Life for higher education. What makes Second Life so amazing for these things is the interaction between students and between universities. Voice is the key enabler. With a headset, residents can talk with other residents just as they would in the real world. With the 3D spatial voice in Second Life, residents can walk from one conversation to another as if they were actually hanging out before or after class. Serendipitous conversations just aren't possible with other forms of online learning, teleconferences or videoconferences. Second Life is leading the industry toward interoperability. Over $345 million invested in virtual worlds in this year alone, the lack of interoperability is going to quickly become a nightmare for users. We're using our leadership position in the industry to drive the architectural standards that we think will enable the metaverse to avoid the fragmentation that leads to slow adoption. Our announcement with IBM demonstrated interoperability between land hosted by IBM and Second Life. Other virtual worlds talk about being open – we are aggressively pursuing open standards and demonstrating results. {CONCLUSION} As you can tell, I am very excited about Second Life and the profound impact that virtual worlds will have on our lives. Like many of us at Linden Lab, I believe in a future where interacting in a virtual world is as picking up the phone. As the leader in virtual worlds — in terms of numbers of users, user hours and the size of our virtual economy, revenue, profitability and brand awareness — we take our responsibility seriously. We will continue to invest in innovations that benefit our current and future residents as well as the entire industry. Two months in and more excited than ever! Thanks for your interest. [lien] [EN]

“Inside the Lab” Podcast, a Discussion on Education in Second Life

13 Responses to ““Inside the Lab” Podcast, a Discussion on Education in SecondLife” · 1 Sandor Balczo Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 5:27 AM I take that back. It works now. You may remove my previous comment and this one to allow other people to express their views :). Sandor · 2 Katt Linden Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 5:40 AM Thanks, Sandor! I hope you enjoy the podcast! – Katt · 3 Massively.com SL news Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 5:57 AM Inside The Lab podcast on education… The latest Inside Linden Lab podcast is out from Linden Lab (although this one is called Inside The Lab instead of the usual name — perhaps an oversight). Unfortunately, the audio quality of this podcast is quite poor and it is difficult to listen to,… · 4 nomoresecrets Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 6:36 AM LL stops supporting youtube inworld? i cannot load one video anymore · 5 AKA Riptide Furse » “Inside the Lab” Podcast, a Discussion on Education in Second Life Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 6:42 AM [...] “Inside the Lab” Podcast, a Discussion on Education in Second Life « Official Second Life Blog [...] · 6 Podcast Announcement: Shape of Things to Come? « Common.Sensible Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 6:51 AM [...] by Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Katt Linden has made another informational post at the Second Life blog, reminding all of us that Linden Lab does in fat have a Second Life podcast. Well, it’s [...] · 7 Opensource Obscure Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 6:54 AM Since I’m not english mother tongue, I couldn’t enjoy this discussion if you didn’t provide a transcript. I really appreciate you publish both the podcast and the transcript at the same time. Thanks! · 8 Second Life Podcast: Shape of Things to Come? « Common.Sensible Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 7:05 AM [...] by Ari Blackthorne™ (Patent Pending) Katt Linden has made another informational post at the Second Life blog, reminding all of us that Linden Lab does in fat have a Second Life podcast. Well, it’s [...] · 9 Tommy Parrott Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 7:05 AM Wow; 40 % of these posts are to blog links; sad…. On topic… Second Life has the ability to be a wonderful tool one day, and education will be a paramount part of its structure. · 10 scottlo scorbal Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 AM The rss subscription link gives me Torley’s tutorials and quicktips but not the podcast referred to in this blog post. Nearly everything is video - the most recent audio program is the windlight team one from April 5. Looking forward to listening to this episode on education. Hopefully the feed will update itself in due course. This certainly looks like a fascinating topic. Thanks for making it available. · 11 Linden Lab release 4th podcast: education and Second Life : The Metaverse Journal - Australia’s Virtual World News Service Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 7:26 AM [...] Get it here or you can read the transcript. [...] · 12 Gil Druart Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 7:43 AM .. continuing my valiant but doomed counter-attack against the prevalent paucity of proof-reading (shame on you, Katt) … what, precisely, is an “expert Linden”? Well, an expert pianist is someone who can play the piano very well, so presumably an expert Linden is someone who’s …. ummmm .. very good at … ummmm … being a Linden? If I were feeling in the mood for deviltry, my next step would be to invite community suggestions as to what qualities that might imply · 13 Drew Says: June 2nd, 2008 at 8:09 AM These are pretty great way to keep us in the loop on whats going on. Something short, weekly (less than 10 minutes) from each studio head or something would be pretty excellent, even if wasn’t ‘official’ company stuff. Whats going on on the various projects is near impossible to keep track of from anyone without an inside view. Surely they could spend 1/2 hour a week or every other week talking about whats going on in their area of development. Anywho, just 2 cents on how to quell the masses. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

Update on Linden Lab Blog Revamp

24 Responses to “Update on Linden Lab BlogRevamp” · 1 JZ Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 1:38 PM Just curious by passing the logons to a 3rd party how are we able to feel protected from any kind of password violations that may happen via this new blog / forum service. We have been told over and over again.. do NOT give your password out. Well isn’t this exactly what we will be doing under your new plans for the blogs/forums? Call me concerned! · 2 Scared Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 PM So, with SSO and another company managing the blogsite, that means another company will have your username and password? This comforts me to no end. · 3 Ann Otoole Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 1:40 PM Oh yes. Very good. Anonymous comments and impersonation comments on the blog are never a good thing. If people are too afraid to say it using their own account name then they should not say it at all. I know there is a crowd that won’t like this at all so I expect to hear some negative comments. · 4 Goedeke Messmer Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 1:43 PM @JZ Any competently designed single log-on system will *not* pass passwords from one system to another: instead it passes cryptographically produced hashes that assure the system that a correct log-on has been received and that the forwarded credentials are not forged. (There are many variations on how this occurs, but the key is that a PASSWORD is not one of the things that is sent from system to system). Think of it as “second hand” credentials. As long as you trust the source to verify identities correctly, you will accept that second hand promise. · 5 Barefoot Ballinger Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:01 PM I am particularly impressed that you realize the need to spend more time on your core business. Everyone benefits, and it’s a great start. · 6 Beezle Warburton Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:04 PM Needs more cowbell. · 7 Jessicka Graves Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:09 PM “To improve the information you get about Second Life and enhance our dialogue with you.” Blog posts are fewer and far between since the “blog upgrade” idea, so you’re doing quite the opposite of enhancing dialogue. Plus, most of the posts read as they were passed through a legal filter, and sound more like a sales pitch to junk we don’t want or don’t need. “We've put a lot of thought into how best to expand the usefulness of the blog…” You’ve narrowed the usefulness of the blog considerably. You used to announce information everybody wanted, like RC updates, full viewer updates, and actual thing we want to know. “One foundational change we are making is adding in authentication so it's there for the blog as well as forums. ” I like the idea, but judging about how well you all have handled things before, I am curious how well it will fall into place. Same with SSO, it sounds good, but can you guys handle it? “…the blog project will be managed by a company whose strength is that kind of work, and thus, the system will be secure, robust and fully scalable.” A 3rd party company running your blog makes me quiver at the thought of password protection and other security worries (which are most likely to be posted about “not to worry” and “we trust these guys”). Not only that, but it sounds like a major cop-out, regardless of how you put it, which is further backed by the next statement. “As we have said before, the Official Second Life blog will continue to be Linden Lab's public face, for policy and other important announcements, and updates from our executive team members.” I thought the blog was to enhance dialogue with us? So it’s /really/ for impersonal announcements about any change in policies, and whatever might be deemed “important” by any Linden (which only seems like a handful)? Yeah, The statement sounds contradictory to the former at the top, or maybe I’m just not reading it right, but if I am, it sure speaks loud and clear what the blog is now for. “The goal here will be to keep you informed about our major efforts. We will also introduce a set of community-facing Linden-authored blogs.” Does this mean Torley is coming back? I never watched his videos, but a lot of people counted on him, and were heavily disappointed when he disappeared. You’re blatantly pushing residents to other blogs to keep your “public face” clean, and there is no question in that. I know I’m being harsh, but these all are huge red flags to me, and in reading between the lines, Robin, you’re saying a lot more then you may realize. · 8 justanalt magic Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:25 PM I would like to raise some concerns about this as well. Since the last move of communication from the _OPEN_ blog to the *CLOSED* forums, the information has been diminishing and vanishing for us that rather polls the blog via RSS than logs into the forums all the time. That means in clear words that the information has become less and less available. Will this change now? Another thing is the question about censorship. How will criticisms be handled in a closed system so tightly connected to the accounts for the world? Will a forum ban also ban from the world, thus effectively silencing all that has opposite views then the official LL line? Or will communication still be open enough to allow blatantly anger in the comments without getting banned and kicked for good? Will the blog/forum solution have it’s own moderation and eventual banning without being connected to the logins to the world? Tell us! Finally, Ann, you missed one thing that will be good to see lesser off.. all this crossposts, backtracks and pings, Aren’t they a bigger problem than the anonymous complaints actually? Finally for the security issues… Change passwords after each login to be safe · 9 Robin Linden Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 PM Hi all. A couple points of clarification: The password authentication is the same step we take today when you log-in to the forums. We’re extending it to the blog, the advantage being that you only need to log-in once and you’ll know who is posting. It’s a secure pass-through, using encryption. Our partner will log you in, not store your passwords. The main blog will be for information and updates that affect all Second Life users. In addition, we’ll have more informal topic blogs for Lindens and Residents interested in specific topics. When there’s a need for deeper dialog than can be accommodated in a comment format, we’ll link over to the forums for a better two-way conversation, as we have in several recent posts. We have no plans to change the way we moderate. As the guidelines say, if posts are off-topic, abusive or violate the guidelines, we will remove them without comment. We understand frustration; it’s how you express it that counts. · 10 Ari Blackthorne™ Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:37 PM @ Just-An-Alt Magic “How will criticisms be handled in a closed system so tightly connected to the accounts for the world?” If your feedback/criticism is actually constructive in some way, I have found in the last two-years that Linden Lab does NOT censor. If you keep the language clean, actually provide constructive criticism then your comments will remain. Frankly, I used to cringe and completely have PITY for anyone with a Linden name who made a post here because of the vitriol that would be slinging back at them for really silly stuff. Unfortuantely, because this blog is all but completely shut-down, likely in part due to that garbage feedback, we now don’t see Torleys videos, or John’s tip of the week pointing at the wiki, or Katt’s upbeat whatever it is she wants to shine the spotlight on this week, or any of the other positive, interesting what-ever-is-happening behind the now closed-tightly-iron curtain. Oh well. That means the only news we get that we can count-on is through Tateru Nino at Massively. Everything else is my freind told me their friend told metheir friend told me type stuff. But oh well. Good things don’t last forever. I’ve been getting the feeling the whole grid has been calming down and turning mundane over the last six-months. Old “M” Linden is turning the thumb-screws on the Lindens no doubt. but that’s his job. HEY ROBIN: Good to see you are still around. LOL ~winks~ · 11 shockwave yareach Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:46 PM Hash: Sorry, but a hash table for password protection does not protect you when you entered the password in the clear in the website. The website you visited and entered the password into will have it once you press RETURN. And thus website X will have the password to your SL account. The only way this can be secure is if the logging in is done on a LL machine which then redirects to the subcontractor’s machine. If the password is entered into another company’s website, there is nothing but good faith preventing them from sharing names and passwords to the web at large. Didn’t that credit card incident teach you anything? · 12 Raul Crimson Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:49 PM Thanks, Robin, for sharing this. I like the project of giving more life to the blog, is much more easy to follow than forums and ant kind of autentication is a good idea under my point of view. Anyway this blog was almost dead lately, please, get it back. · 13 Spencer Diesel Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 2:59 PM Hi Robin, I’m all for streamlining and the SSO sounds great. My only concern is password security and will the login page(s) be https? Also what’s the release date for the SSO? · 14 Danielle Harrop Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 3:57 PM Yes, by all means, keep all dialogue in the forums, where a Linden will stay and post as long as there’s bunnies and light being scattered about, but if the questions get too hard, or the user base isn’t blowing sunsine up in the dark places, there isn’t a Linden to be found. No need to soil your “public face” with truths or hard questions. · 15 Duckling Kwak Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:08 PM Hi, Robin! (1) I join others who have commented on the positive aspect of LL having considered the impact on internal resources to develop the new communications capabilities. Focus on core competencies - that sounds like a good plan. (2) The bit about passwords ought to be a non-issue. As Robin points out, there are mechanisms to handle this. And cross-site authentication is nothing new to LL; many 3rd party sites (completely outside LL’s control) use it. If LL implements it incorrectly, of course it’ll be an issue. But let’s not assume that LL will implement it incorrectly; they do have a proven track record of doing this. (3) It really concerns me that this posting is about communications, and the posting deals with a bunch of technology and extremely little about communications! How will the user experience change and/or improve? We currently have a SERIOUS lack of communication from LL. It is now a challenge to find relevant information and requires checking multiple places to find information - assuming there is any to find. LL have significantly reduced their communications. New viewer releases - ZERO mention of them in any of the usual places. Downtime and service interruptions - again, ZERO communications. And this push for forums is utterly useless. The relevant points are quickly lost in a deluge of ranting. Sure, give people a chance to chat and vent and interact - I have nothing against that. But don’t do it at the expense of facilitating succinct communications about the service. Overall, LL has demonstrated time and time again a lack of expertise developing and supporting user communities from the social (human) side; there’s an over-focus on the technology. I hope there will be future communications that give us a better idea of what’s coming. I know that LL does take our input into account - we’ve seen evidence of that many times. But without putting the issues out in the open for feedback, well, it’s hard to give feedback! Lovely communication about SSO - I’d EXPECT LL to do that. Now, please tell us more about the user experience. If all we can do is talk techie, then please share your user stories for the new system. -DK · 16 Ciaran Laval Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:13 PM Maybe if you used the main blog to tell people Torley can be found in the tutorial blog tucked away in showcase the bring back Torley campaign could be somewhat satisfied. Does this mean that the main blog will be information only with no comments and that comments will only be allowed elsewhere? Will it just be a feed to sub blogs similar to WorldofSL? The beta testing of the forum communication hasn’t exactly gone down well, you need to send your minions into the forums, minions have many uses. · 17 Why not let people speak? Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:16 PM talk about lindens wanting to silence voices…this is just another move to prevent honest expression of opinions…i dearly hope the people in sl will have a progressive future…but this linden policy by pr flacks and the ceo is only designed to manipulate information to their advantage…just watch how long it takes them to dust my comments…sad but true · 18 Darien Caldwell Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:29 PM @8, justanalt magic, Can you elaborate how pings and trackbacks are the biggest problem on the blog? That is the first time i’ve ever heard this assertion. As for the announcement, It’s nice to hear thigns are proceeding. I’m in fact working on the same sort of single logon for my upcoming website and forums and can sympathise with how technically challenging it can be, especially when working with disparate software packages. I’m eager to hear more as it nears realization. · 19 justanalt magic Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:38 PM @9 “We have no plans to change the way we moderate. As the guidelines say, if posts are off-topic, abusive or violate the guidelines, we will remove them without comment. We understand frustration; it's how you express it that counts. :)” Well that sounds somewhat relaxing, compared to the previous visions of shutting down the accounts of non-ok comments that has been suggested and put into spotlight. I’m fine with the idea of removing abusive comments, but not blocking accounts. @10 “If your feedback/criticism is actually constructive in some way, I have found in the last two-years that Linden Lab does NOT censor.” I know that it at least previously have been impossible to put out well formatted criticisms on the blog here if either a) the company name or b) a company residents name was metioned in the blog post. Can you please explain how that is not contraproductive and equals to censorship? 16 said: “Maybe if you used the main blog to tell people Torley can be found in the tutorial blog tucked away in showcase the bring back Torley campaign could be somewhat satisfied.” HEY! Is there other blogs around than the main blog and the grid status blog? since when and why hasn’t that been told at this blog? /me grumbles over too many blogs without proper ways to find them. And for the password security… as long as it will be a paragraph in the tos about that LL will be responsible for any damage made by passwords on the loose thanks to the 3rd-party involved, I’m happy LL and security in the same scentence? Now that is not common at all, but they are getting there these days, so maybe, just maybe there is some hope that this will work better than what the userbase is suspecting by experience. But the more communicative thing again, will there be a possibility to continue polling the info via RSS/atom-feeds without having to mess with logging in all the time? It would be nice to know that, honestly. (Forums are really only for those with lots of time, others have easier scanning through the blog for info.) · 20 justanalt magic Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:43 PM @18, isn’t it called that, those comments only telling that the blog comment is echoed on another blog? There isn’t one in this comment thread yet, but look at the older posts some time back and you’ll find them. At least in my mind they eat up a lot of the creative rightful comments when there is a certain limit, like in this place. (And I’m sorry to have taken 2% of the available comments by now :p) · 21 Escort DeFarge Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 PM Don’t give away my password or force me to give it away. Thanks!! · 22 G.W. Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 4:53 PM @20 I agree with that. Many blogs have a separate section for trackbacks for ease of viewing and most blogs have no comments limit but I’d just be content if LL fixed it so that trackbacks didn’t count against the limit or preferably upped the limit to something more reasonable since 150 when you have so many residents is ridiculously low · 23 G.W. Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 5:06 PM @11 I agree if they’re hashing the actual password to send but if they’re halfway competent they’ll use a hash of whatever your internal UID is and send it across and if they want to be really secure they’d sign it to prevent man in the middle login attempts. Look, LL has dropped the ball… many times and I’ll be in line right after Prok in many cases to criticize them here and on the forums but I don’t think even LL is stupid enough to use a system that would send your password to a third party. They’ll send your other personal information to third parties whenever they feel like it for ID Verification programs but short of them being hacked… again I don’t think even LL is that boneheaded. · 24 Katt Linden Says: October 23rd, 2008 at 5:56 PM To answer a few who have asked, passwords will be secure. Only Linden Lab will actually “see” your passwords as you log in, not the partner. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

M Linden: Second Life Update and Welcome to Howard Linden (aka Howard Look)

Greetings everyone! Over the last several months we've been hard at work making Second Life more relevant, more usable and more reliable.  Our work is showing up in Second Life's usage statistics.  On Sunday of this past weekend, we hit another concurrency high of 76,946 and yesterday log-ins for the previous 60 days crossed the 1.4 Million mark. What have we been up to? Reliability is a top strategic focus for the Lab.  In October, FJ Linden described how we are launching LL Net (our private fiber optic ring connecting our data centers) to provide additional redundancy and eliminate our reliance on VPNs.  I am happy to report that this project is ahead of schedule and other improvements are underway. Another top priority is to make Second Life more relevant. Last month, Ben Glenn discussed the work we are doing with Big Spaceship to improve the first hour experience.  This project is moving along at a nice clip, as well.  You will soon see a new website design that visually highlights the wonderful range of activities people enjoy in Second Life. With T Linden (Tom Hale) on board and working closely with the user experience team, we are also making great progress on the usability project.  It's a major effort because the viewer is at least three applications in one.  Maybe four.  Redesigning it so that it is easy to use for new Residents without sacrificing functionality for experienced users is no simple task and it'll take well into second half of next year before you will be downloading a new and different client.  (In the interim, we'll have regular viewer updates, as we do now.)  We've landed on a new look and feel for the viewer that I am very excited about.  Now we begin the hard work of redesigning the menu structures and tool layouts and modularizing the code base so that it can accommodate the design changes we are making. As I mentioned in my last update, we've been actively hiring to support all the work underway to make Second Life more relevant, more usable and more reliable. I have some great news to share on the talent front.   We've added a new leader to our engineering leadership team. Howard Look (you'll know him as Howard Linden) is joining us as SVP of Customer Applications — which we call “The Front.” He'll be responsible for leading the engineering team responsible for the customer-facing part of the Second Life experience.  Throughout 2009, Howard will be working with T Linden and our product, design teams and engineering teams to reshape the Second Life viewer into a simple and intuitive interface. Before joining Linden Lab, Howard was VP of Software at Pixar.  His team created and maintained Pixar's proprietary film-making system. Prior to Pixar, Howard was on the founding team of TiVo where he headed up Application Software and User Experience.  TiVo could have had a highly complex interface that put distance between users and the content they were seeking.  Instead, the company did the opposite.  By making the device intuitive and easy to use — and therefore attractive to a broad market — TiVo changed the way people watch TV.  Prior to TiVo, Howard was at SGI where he worked on the Inventor team.   While Director of Applied Engineering, Howard and his team created a virtual world called “O2 Out of the Box Experience.” Howard also has a passion for education and spent time this past summer as a substitute teacher (4th grade and middle school math).  He told me they were his hardest days of work ever. When I met Howard, it was clear he was a great fit for Linden Lab – rich content creation tools (Pixar), intuitive interfaces (TiVo), 3D worlds (SGI) and a bonus attribute in his passion for education. I'm very pleased that Howard decided to join the executive team at Linden Lab. We're assembling a world-class team to deliver on our promise of a highly relevant and delightful user experience and a stable and reliable platform. Cheers! – M Linden [lien] [EN]

559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes - RC1 of the new Second Life Simulator

36 Responses to “559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes - RC1 of the new Second LifeSimulator” · 1 SuezanneC Baskerville Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:08 PM Re: “SVC-1281: Swimmer 1.1 by Ziggy Romulus now works” I believe that should say Siggy Romulu, not Ziggy Romulus. · 2 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:11 PM @1 SuezanneC: Oops thanks for catching that. /Sidewinder · 3 RodneyLee Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:16 PM Pssst! how about the over lapping Prims when using the Copy/wand on Hollow prims, that a good one to fix one of these days….. Tested with this release… nadda its still Broke · 4 Lionel Oliva Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:20 PM I can’t wait to get my tank to explode Havok4 style · 5 Wolfie Waves Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:26 PM Yay, I see the bug where llMoveToTarget() worked fine on avatars but not at all on objects has been fixed. Just one thing I’m curious about, how come this update didn’t include the 1.19.2 update that is currently bring rolled out to the none Havok4 regions? I was looking forward to testing out scripted glow on our lights in Stargate Command, Eternal Calm. Anyways, either way this is yet another great H4 update ^.^ · 6 Darien Caldwell Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:30 PM My sim is dying now with this update · 7 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:33 PM @5 Wolfie: There are many server-side projects running in parallel at the moment, and beta projects do not cross-merge every fix “down to the wire” of deploying a new beta release. Each time we stop to build and have our version QA tested, there is still work going on in both the release and other simulator projects - work that sometimes hits the finish line before we have finished QA and our “cooking period” on the Beta Preview - thus sometimes we will not have some lower priority fixes that might show up in release. We pick them up in the next build, and as you’ve seen if there are any top priority exploits or other fixes, we’ll at that point do a special build to be sure that the Early Adopters include them. Thanks! /Sidewinder · 8 Havok 4 Regions updated with 11 fixes at Daikon Forge Says: March 19th, 2008 at 8:58 PM […] wanted to post a quick note on the news that the Havok team has deployed another 11 fixes to 559 Early Adopter regions.  Looking at the list of fixes, I don’t see anything that […] · 9 Wolfie Waves Says: March 19th, 2008 at 9:01 PM @7 Sidewinder Yeah that is true but I was just curious Can’t wait to see H4 go live to the whole of the grid. Our region has not crashed once since we joined the EA program, and believe me, we have tried :p I can see a lot of the whiners out there quieting down once this goes live ^.^ · 10 Vittorio Beerbaum Says: March 19th, 2008 at 9:37 PM I’m not sure this is related so H4 or whatever, but im experiencing the “autophantom feature” now… linkset are phantoming themself for no reason, and plus if i unlink the linkset each prim is phantom and you can’t do anything, taking the object in the archive and rezzing it again > it remains phantom! I were lucky to have a working copy otherwise i would have lost 2 days of work. · 11 Blinders Off Says: March 19th, 2008 at 10:31 PM Heya Sidewinder. Regarding the Large Prims thing we discussed last blog: tested them and reporting as promised. The hollows work GREAT. Woot! Good job! We can now walk inside a large, hollowed out large prim. That has major potential for large, low-prim builds. THANKS. They still can’t be altered to any size from the original, but at least this gives us some workable cut options. : ) Would still love to see total implementation of up to 256m prims… but for now, this is a terrfic mid-way function. · 12 Balpien Hammerer Says: March 19th, 2008 at 10:33 PM Wow, H4 used to have a noticle difference in hover height (it was a bit lower). I adjusted things to split the difference, bit now with the latest changes the hover height is so much lower than H1 that my boat now is 2/3 underwater? Can you explain what was changed WRT vehicle hover and perhaps effciency? Thanks · 13 Renee Faulds Says: March 19th, 2008 at 10:34 PM @10 Could you specify the region that occurred in? · 14 Havok 4 Update « Sean Heying’s Blog Says: March 19th, 2008 at 11:00 PM […] 4Update My favourite Linden, Sidewinder, has updated the blog on the next release of Havok4 that will probably soon hit the beta grid and shortly after that hit […] · 15 The Grid Live » Second Life News for March 20, 2008 Says: March 19th, 2008 at 11:13 PM […] Second Life Blog 559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes - RC1 of the new Second Life Simulator Quote from the site - The Havok4-based Second Life simulator v1.19.1.82411 has been deployed 559 […] · 16 Elvis Orbit Says: March 19th, 2008 at 11:42 PM Update went well and all is working great. Same with me I have nit had a sim crash since I have had Havok 4 put on my region. The future looks bright. Great job guys! · 17 Balpien Hammerer Says: March 20th, 2008 at 12:10 AM I’ll file a jira report but the SIM info for my hover problem, #12, is: Second Life 1.19.0 (5) Feb 28 2008 17:18:12 (Second Life Release) You are at 228444.9, 275896.7, 77.8 in Mystica located at sim1062.agni.lindenlab.com (8.4.129.212:13006) Havok4 Beta Server 1.19.1.82411 CPU: Intel Core 2 Series Processor (1794 MHz) Memory: 3070 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista Service Pack 1 (Build 6001) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce 8600M GT/PCI/SSE2 OpenGL Version: 2.1.1 LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.12_0000000000) Packets Lost: 410/384769 (0.1%) · 18 Blinders Off Says: March 20th, 2008 at 12:25 AM @ 9 Wolfie: For the record, people who complain about SL funcitonality aren’t “whiners”. They’re customers with legitimate complaints regarding not getting what they’re paying for. And I think they deserve a little more respect. · 19 Whisper Says: March 20th, 2008 at 12:33 AM One hopes that megaprims as is will not be supported at all in H4. The only prims that should be supported are prims able to be generated in the editor. Nothing else. If larger sizes are being supported by build tools then fine. Nothing else is acceptable. As for sim sized and above, there should be server side routines to detect and eliminate these abominations from the grid on rez, it should be trivial to roll code out now to do this. God alone knows why this has not been done. · 20 Loco Rau Says: March 20th, 2008 at 1:33 AM Sidewinder, the large XL and XXL Sharks from ee Oh are working now But Heps scuba bouyancy control not · 21 Loco Rau Says: March 20th, 2008 at 1:39 AM and Terra SportIII parachute only works as expected if first you fly and move flying when skydiving ?? · 22 Hu Says: March 20th, 2008 at 2:54 AM @19 Whisper: Why would you want to do that? What’s your beef with megaprims? They are a great way to reduce prim usage when done well. I would have to use hundreds more prims to do what I’m doing with a single megaprim. I would raise bloody hell if they were deleted, especially without consent. The fact that megaprims behave *correctly* when they arent even officially supported by LL is awesome and a testament to the thoughtfulness of Sidewinder and the rest of the H4 team. If you don’t want to deal with megaprims, fine, then don’t go to sims with them, but stop advocating ruining other peoples’ work. · 23 HD Pomeray Says: March 20th, 2008 at 4:23 AM @ Sidewinder: Haven’t had a chance to test it really good yet but I did take a quick ride around the sim this morning. Not sure if you changed things from the v1.19.1.82355 that was in the beta grid to the v1.19.1.82411 that was deployed in the early adopters or if it just works totally different on the main grid than it does in the beta grid, but, all the improvements that we felt in beta aren’t there in the main grid now. Handling WAS great in beta…. no improvements in the sim… still taking flight with the tiniest bump and now …. If you try to go over a prim jump you get embedded into it and stuck. Basically I think it’s gotten worse. I’ll do more testing and write a more inclusive report latter today but for now, it’s a sad day in SLurgis. · 24 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 4:48 AM @11 Blinders: Thanks - glad you like the results! /Sidewinder · 25 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 4:53 AM @19 Whisper: The megaprim question has been discussed in open forums for six months, including many office hours, and the resulting conclusions published repeatedly: Megaprims up to 256m on a side (256m x 256m x 256m) that already exist will be allowed to remain in existing builds. Megaprims over that size will be automatically trimmed to that size when the Havok4 simulator initializes. The Havok4-based simulator release will not add or enhance existing tools to creeate or handle megaprim sized prims in any fashion that did not exist before the release. /Sidewinder · 26 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 4:56 AM @20 Loco: I suspect that the swimmer fixes that we have already done for the next build will help the HEPS scuba gear. If you get a chance it would be helpful to re-test on the Beta Preview when the next simulator version is deployed there for testing. Thanks, Sidewinder · 27 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 4:59 AM @21 Loco: The Terrasport III behavior sounds like it may be a different bug. Would you please contact me in-world so that we can discuss the full behavior of this product, and be sure that all of the relevant issues are documented? Thanks, Sidewinder · 28 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 5:00 AM @23 HD: I will check that to be sure later this morning… That should be the same code base from the bike perspective. Does your region image on the Beta Preview still behave correctly (that has not been touched as far as I know from the time that you tested it)? Sidewinder · 29 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 20th, 2008 at 5:17 AM @23 HD: By the way, let me clarify a bit… the deploy to Second Life was supposed to be *exactly* the same code base as the version you tested on the preview, with the version number updated (due to an internal sequencing issue the build number had not been fully updated on the preview). I am quite puzzled by your findings for that reason and will research it. /Sidewinder P.S. I just did a quick ride around part of Lil Sturgis 1 on the main Second Life system, and to the “uneducated rider” it certainly seems like the new code to me… faster, smoother, banking around tight turns does not lay down farther than about 60 degrees (at least the turns I tried). Please contact me directly in-world to figure out what’s up. I wonder if this could have been due to something else going on with the system at the time that you tested? · 30 Very Keynes Says: March 20th, 2008 at 7:31 AM I had a very strange situation when I tested earlier with my boat, in that all was well till I crossed into the H4 Sim, then despite the Frame rate showing as 24FPS I was experiencing only one or 2. I crossed back and all was fine. Then I had a friend join me, crossed into H4 again, and had the same issue, but from his perspective we were sailing along as smoothly as before the crossing. I will try again later in, case it was line issues (I am in Africa and the under sea cable often gets congested at this time of day), but as I had no issues any where else on the grid I wondered if it may be indicative of a client side issue. Will contact you in world if it persists later. · 31 Blinders Off Says: March 20th, 2008 at 7:47 AM @ 19 Wolfie: I’m not sure whether you’re serious or just posting to see what buttons you can push. Advocating total removal of megaprims is a very unbalanced view… and based on what? All you stated was an opinion without any data or facts to back it up. Megaprims are great. If Linden Lab fully implemented megaprims up to 256m in size, you would see glorious builds the likes of which have never been present on Second Life. So I find it difficult to belive you’re acutally serious in your suggestion they be totally remove. That just makes no sense whatsoever unless you’re just trying to be cute. If that’s not the case, I’d like to hear your reasons for proposing such an unbeneficial step. @ Sidewinder: As you know, I’m about as pro-megaprim as they come and for good reason. But I am VERY happy to hear that the Havok 4 implementation will resize anything over 256m. The “giant prims” have been the primary source of any griefing that has gone on (if any). For a certainty, megaprims over 256m in size have little if any application on Second Life. So kudos to LL on this decision. I don’t mean this as a backhanded compliment, but that’s a very logical and practical decision to come out of the Lab. Hope to see many more like it. · 32 HD Pomeray Says: March 20th, 2008 at 7:59 AM @Sidewinder: I'm at my RL office now where my PC is barely able to run SL so I can't do much further testing until latter tonight at which time I'll spend considerable time doing so. This morning when I tested it from home, on my gamming rig, it was really weird. The handling was stiff and jittery… if I came in contact with a vertical piece of land I climbed up it very quickly and was shot into the air. When I attempted to go over a jump the front end of the bike would embed into the prim that makes up the jumps and would get stuck in it. I was only in there for about 5 minutes because I was on my way out to work but I was very disappointed because I thought it was going to handle just like the bats grid. OK … so … let's assume it is the same image as the beta grid… What are the variables: 1. The Track in Slurgis is made up of prims were as in the beta grid I was testing in a sand box on perfectly flat ground. That could have a lot to do with it. 2. The ramps I was using in beta were made of a wedge shaped prim where as the ones in Slurgis are flattened boxes tilted up to make the Ramp. 3. In the beta grid I'm using the viewer that gets me into that grid where as on the main grid I'm running 1.190 (5). Could the viewer affect it? I did go back into Slurgis just now from here and replaced the ramps with the same type used to test in the beta grid and found that I was not getting stuck into them now. Could there be a problem with Box prims? If there is then that would explain a lot as all of the roads are made up of box prims. Also… I have a picture from the beta grid where paeoti was riding and ran into a building. She was embedded into the wall. I'll have her send that to you in world in a few minutes. Thanks for your continued support Sidewinder. I know you guys have a LOT on your plates with this and all of the other projects you have going on. My RL job is not a lot different so I can relate. I think I was expecting everything to be “Fixed” and life would be good. LOL… I can see it's a lot more complicated than most of us can see or give you credit for. I'll have more patients. Thanks again, HD · 33 Ryu Darragh Says: March 20th, 2008 at 8:35 AM Sidewinder, I would hope that creation of specific sizes of large prims will be allowed at some point. Perhaps not for all shapes of prims (torii would be nice, but could be built around), but definitely for cylinders, spheres and cubes. · 34 HD Pomeray Says: March 20th, 2008 at 8:43 AM @Sidewinder: Guess I can’t get you those pictures … took them in the beta grid so they are not in her inventory in the main grid can she send them to you in the Beta Grid ? HD · 35 Hu Says: March 20th, 2008 at 8:53 AM @25 Sidewinder (re. megaprims): That is a relief to hear! I think that older complaints about megaprims, when they are used and not abused, are unfounded. LL seems to have a consensus per your post, but is there any chance of codifying that, so megaprims don’t suddenly become verboten on a whim? · 36 Hu Says: March 20th, 2008 at 8:54 AM @34: You *should* be able to open the image in the beta viewer, do File > Save Texture As, save to your hard drive, and re-upload to the main grid. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 10 fixes (2008-03-26) - RC2 of the new Second Life Simulator

38 Responses to “Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 10 fixes (2008-03-26) - RC2 of the new Second LifeSimulator” · 1 Ari Blackthorne Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:06 PM Grrrr - these update notices kill me! LOL I put in my ticket to join the Havok Early Adopter program for my Sim a *MONTH* ago! I see these notices and start biting my nails again wondering who’s dropping the ball. Concierge has never taken more than two-weeks for me before now. LOL Thanks for the update! · 2 Cheshyr Pontchartrain Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:19 PM Ok, I’m confused. Aren’t these the same fixes described in last week’s Havok4 patch? What I don’t see is any mention of the real changes. For instance, after today’s restart, one of my scripts crashed with an out of memory error. This isn’t Linden Lab’s fault of course, but I was pleasantly surprised by the new error message: [script:–emDash Main 2.50–]: Script run-time error [script:–emDash Main 2.50–]: Stack-Heap Collision Kudos for whomever snuck that patch in. It’s long overdue. · 3 Blake Sachs Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:22 PM Don’t worry so much about breaking a bit of old content. There will be the usual whining, but I for one prefer more reliable physics and improved region stability. In cases where it’s due to technical limits, well that’s unfortunate, but I wouldn’t have any bad afterthoughts about breaking things that relied on known bugs or deprecated features, I’m surprised you’ve been so sensible regarding these things XD Still, it’s cool how this is marching forward. · 4 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:24 PM @1 Ari: I’ll check - I know they’ve been swamped… /Sidewinder · 5 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:26 PM @2 Cheshyr: These are the same fixes, but that last blog post refers to the deploy of this update to the Beta Preview. It was put there for extended testing before being rolled out to the Early Adopter regions on Second Life. If you will send me some specifics about the script that you are seeing a problem with I will be happy to have it looked at. A copy on a notecard in world, or IM me so I can drop by to take a look, is all it will take to get help. /Sidewinder · 6 Zi Ree Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:27 PM The sliding issue is fixed, thanks! But the swimmer keeps me in a falling animation instead of swimming. I can demonstrate in world, if you need an example. Keep up the great work! Zi · 7 Stephen Zenith Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:39 PM Heh heh, my comment in an earlier blog post about Havok being a ™ got deleted, yet somebody obviously read it · 8 Prodigal Maeterlinck Says: March 26th, 2008 at 2:50 PM Don’t get too anxious to get involved, you might get burned. The physics become active on ALL prims, whether physics enabled or not, making it impossible to monitor and test if you have extensive construction. And they do NOT keep a permenant backup for your sim before putting it on beta software. So if they’re unable to respond to a rollback request due to lack of time or the support system going down, you’re screwed. · 9 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:08 PM @8 Prodigal: The Early Adopter program is a beta program, and has been explained that way from the start. If you are interested in testing an entire region off of Second Life in a way that cannot affect your Second Life region I would be happy to place a copy of the Beta Preview grid. We do keep simstates of the regions, and can do a state rollback if something ends up problematic as a result of the update, and I have personally been involved in a few of these cases earlier in the process. With that all said, a beta is a beta, and yes there are risks. That is why this beta program has been run completely opt-in from the start. Sidewinder · 10 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:08 PM @7 Stephen: Yes I did read it /Sidewinder · 11 Felony Fabre Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:22 PM Like Ari, I put my request in some time ago. I understand that they are busy, but an acknowledgement of having received the ticket would have been nice. Sometimes it’s the little things that matter … · 12 Vittorio Beerbaum Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:27 PM I’ve noticed something (or maybe i were dreaming…), and that’s pretty strange none noticed a so important news (so i assume again i were dreaming…). In one of the previous blog entries about the rolling restarted (normal regions), at the end of the comment: “Early adopters region with H4…. will be not affected…” there were a more extensive comment saying: “…because we are planning for another upgrade that will introduce havok4 to the whole grid” (it does mean, finally H4 will be deploied). Now that comment disappeared… changed mind? …or (yeah) i were really dreaming? · 13 Ron Crimson Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:32 PM Maybe Havok4 is ready for a release version but there’s going to continue to be a Havok4 *beta* which will stay ahead of the curve, further fixing small remaining bugs and tweaking things? Besides, I guess that’ll eventually be the next stage where Havok4’s NEW features are starting to be exploited and put into use for SL. True, or am I right? · 14 Michi Lumin Says: March 26th, 2008 at 3:35 PM Sidewinder, Any chance that mainland regions may be able to beta-test this at any point? We’ve been a Havok4 beta test region on the Beta grid for a LONG LONG time now, we have requested Early Adopter status if at all possible quite a while ago. We’re not a vehicle sim, we’re high traffic, have been around since 2003, and have been testing all sorts of things since 2003… Maybe it’d be possible finally to get this in Lusk? We could *really* do with the reduction of physics based crashes, for one. If not, (I really feel we’re a responsible enough region to do this!) - any ETA on rollout to main? · 15 Wildefire Walcott Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:14 PM Sidewinder, does this fix the scripted dingaling lag issue? · 16 Darien Caldwell Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:17 PM @15, yes, it does, that is “DEV-12231: Repeated calls to set_task_scale() with no changes to the scale value no longer create excessive simulator overhead” · 17 Gaius Goodliffe Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:32 PM @12: Hah! Someone mentioned a comment to that effect at the last Havok4 office hours, and I couldn’t find it when I went to go look for it. The comment made at the office hours was that the blog comment had been possibly premature, so my guess is it was edited back out. So, no you weren’t dreaming. And it wasn’t so much a changed mind at LL as the fact that the release of Havok4 to the whole grid will go ahead barring unforeseen problems cropping up at this point, but the odds of an unforeseen problem cropping up at this point are, although low, still high enough to make comments like that one perilous. It may happen every bit as quickly as they’re hoping, in fact it probably will, but there’s enough chance that it won’t that they shouldn’t make any statements as definite as that one was. · 18 Kelly Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:34 PM @2 Cheshyr: I got really annoyed trying to figure out what script was crashing on me when I was trying to track down a havok bug. It is showing the object name too right? (your paste didn’t have it but I thought it was ‘object_name [script: script_name]’) · 19 Vincent Nacon Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:35 PM Still waiting for that mass issue on small-complex-cut prims to be fixed. · 20 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:42 PM @13 Ron: Once this version is integrated with release an is “the release simulator” it will be one and the same. There has been discussion of leading releases on the Beta Preview grid to check things there before deploy, but that is not finalized, and actually in some cases would not be the right thing to do (for instance a critical function fix or a security exploit resolution). This is being discussed internally in an on-going way. /Sidewinder · 21 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:43 PM @14 Michi: Mainland regions will not be included in the beta process because there is no resident region owner, and thus cannot really be “opt in” in a meaningful way. Sidewinder · 22 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 4:49 PM @18 Vincent: Which mass issue are you referring to? Is this a jira’d item? /Sidewinder · 23 Havok 4 to be deployed grid-wide soon? at Daikon Forge Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:13 PM […] because the announcement of the rollout was "possibly premature", and Darien is obviously not the only person to have […] · 24 Malifico Bade Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:23 PM You guys should really try and fix a glitch i’ve been getting on my sim i manage, objects that are physical are not being picked up by autoreturn. · 25 Michi Lumin Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:45 PM Sidewinder — Even if we (really) own all but 196m2 that’s owned by an abandoned lifer account that hasn’t logged on since 2004 and has nothing on it? (That really is the case with Perry in our situation.) · 26 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:48 PM @24 Malificio: Could you write up the specifics (maybe with a landmark so we can find the object(s) ) and send it to me inworld so we can take a look? Thanks, Sidewinder · 27 Michi Lumin Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:53 PM I take that back… 144m2, not 196m2. · 28 badb0y dagger Says: March 26th, 2008 at 9:29 PM Wats been up with SL this game is soo messed up any more everything in my invtory is scwerd i got stuff in it i never seen b4 and keep losen object that i put down on my land, my friends list is messed up it keep sayn that some people are still loadn and it wont let me give them modify right and thay cant give it to me, my media player for veidos is not workn lik omg lol , wat are doing LL yall slackn on fixn da game . · 29 Sean Heying Says: March 26th, 2008 at 9:40 PM Sidewinder, in the 1.19.2 Server Release I saw the message “Our current plan is to have another server deploy next week to roll out version 1.19.3. Server 1.19.3 will bring Havok4 to all of Second Life” at the bottom. That was subsequently removed fromt he post after about 3 people had pinged back. Is Havok4 slated for release in server 1.19.3 next week? There is still quite a bit of testing to do on the RC2 in terms of sliding and I have seen the swimmer does not yet work and there is still that weird sleeping state the sim goes into where you find it very slow to walk (not lag, but like walking through molasses) Can you please refute or confirm this release date. · 30 Sascha Says: March 27th, 2008 at 1:34 AM Wasn’t the (waiting) bug for the land group supposed to be fixed already (same as VWR-882)? · 31 belinda1 aeon Says: March 27th, 2008 at 2:26 AM Hi… Can a help you… A I’m my Avatar is abb may appear frozzen..A I’m can not the Game.. Thanks for the Help Belinda Baaden…. · 32 Elvis Orbit Says: March 27th, 2008 at 2:43 AM New Havok™4 Update on my regions working nicely. Great work! · 33 glow Raymaker Says: March 27th, 2008 at 3:13 AM Its amazing how well 18.5(3) {Havoc 2} runs despite all the improvements that are supposed to have been introduced since then with havoc 4. Including the later releases ive tried and run screaming from since then! Moral of the story is that: less havoc is less stressfull! · 34 Vincent Nacon Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:36 AM @Sidewinder Linden: Well it wasn’t JIRAed yet (doing that now) but Les White and I had been mentioning it at your Havok 4 meeting a few times. Les gave you a folder of cutted prims with strange mass issue. Here’s the full report. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1923 · 35 Vincent Nacon Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:37 AM @33Glow Raymaker: We’re on Havok 1…. there’s no Havok 2 on Second Life. · 36 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:42 AM @29 Sean: The reports I have gotten suggest that the sliding problems have been resolved. I received a separate write-up yesterday with step by step instructions for how to reproduce swimmer problem behavior that we have not seen and we will look at that. I have no idea what behavior you are reporting with regards to simulator sleeping state that is slow like molasses but not lag would be. Please contact me in-world to discuss the simulator issue you have described. This is the first I have heard you comment on such a problem, and it does not sound like we will get to the bottom of the simulator issue you have described in this format. (This could readily be caused by some other parts of the system, if I’m guessing correctly about what you are seeing, but we need to talk in some detail and perhaps do some tests to fully understand the issue.) Regards, Sidewinder · 37 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:43 AM @30 Sascha: VWR bugs are related to the viewer, and not the simulator (server) portions of the system. This blog post is about a simulator update for a beta early adopter program. /Sidewinder · 38 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:45 AM @34 Vincent: Would have been nice to see this jira a while ago We’ll look at this and see what is possible. Thanks, Sidewinder We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

584 Havok™4 Early Adopter regions updated with 8 fixes (2008-03-28) - RC3 of the new Second Life Simulator

41 Responses to “584 Havok™4 Early Adopter regions updated with 8 fixes (2008-03-28) - RC3 of the new Second LifeSimulator” · 1 Darien Caldwell Says: March 28th, 2008 at 7:00 PM hmm, the releases are getting faster and faster. That’s a good sign. Go Team H4! · 2 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says: March 28th, 2008 at 7:35 PM I wonder if you’re interested in getting some extra Not-So-Early-Adopters If so, can you place a short notice on where to subscribe to it? I’ve tried out several of the Havok™4 sims and I’m definitely very very happy with the results. · 3 Corsi Mousehold Says: March 28th, 2008 at 7:48 PM Thanks SW!!! Anything more we can do on our end hon..let us know. · 4 Peter Lameth Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:02 PM Gwyn i dont think their accepting anymore people but u can try theirs nothing to lose, u need to goto support and you’ll find it in Land and Region Issues -> Region Change -> Havok4 Early Adopter Program · 5 Vittorio Beerbaum Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:22 PM Hi Gwyneth, i think the gridwide deployment is so just around the corner that you’ll be more than “not so early.. adopter”… but something like: “a day before adopter”. For the rest, probably (as expected) H4 is one of the biggest improvement to the grid from an year or so, it introduces much more stability to the server than anything else in a year. I were expecting “new possibilities”, and well you have plenty, but the much important point here is that the “things” already done, doesn’t stress the server anymore (and i’m trying heavy scripts that would lag/crash a h1 sim within minutes). · 6 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:31 PM Wow.. this quiet after a deploy… I wonder if that means it’s working well enough to take the next step /Sidewinder · 7 Daten Thielt Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:44 PM Not to well unfortunatly, seems that setting a landing point and making it so they go there is no longer working, ill submit a jira for it in the monrning · 8 Atashi Toshihiko Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:48 PM A short while after the deploy I went and took a wander through my havoc4 sim. All looked good, except I was hit by another long ‘molasses-moment’ The only additional info I have to offer right now is when standing still, the random performance drops tend to be short; when you are walking or otherwise moving, that seems to draw out the duration of the slow moment, up into the 10 - 20 second range. It is only the very, very rare ones that are 30 seconds or over, I think. Nonetheless, it is troubling, I think. At any rate, keep up the great work Sidewinder & the rest of the h4 team! · 9 les Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:50 PM take the step! you’re killing me! much love · 10 Ceejay Writer Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:50 PM Sidewinder! Tis very quiet indeed. For me, it’s just been one long damn week of work-hell. Gonna crawl into SL in a little while and see about having some fun. Hope all your recent fixes stay more stable than my brain is! · 11 Docetti Rozen Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:05 PM Hola…..;) · 12 Buckaroo Mu Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:11 PM I think you guys were so wrapped up in the asset problems you forgot to announce the new RC of the viewer · 13 Sean Heying Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:24 PM Woot, this is a great release candidate…. The swimmer is still very broken in that the falling animation is played and never stopped, but not enough reason to hold up a release! (the result is quite comical with my falling animation: http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6391/swimmer001qv8.jpg where I float upside down like tied to a fishing line.) The molasses issue didn’t happen all day yesterday or today, maybe RC2 has cleaned it up. I will keep watching. All my test vehicles work nicely. The only gotcha I can see happening when you get to release is the behavior of megaprims when they are resized. I can see some housewives painting their prefab houses accidentally resizing a megaprim can having it snap to 10×10. The old behavior where it jumped back to size was preferable. · 14 U M Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:26 PM wonder! its working great!!!!!!!!! · 15 Cheshyr Pontchartrain Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:27 PM The problem I demonstrated where vehicles lose the ability to steer after a prim change is still present. I don’t see it in this fix list, so this is just a reminder; not a new bug report. Andrew Linden has a copy of the affected vehicle, as does Sidewinder I think. · 16 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:35 PM @7 Daten: “seems that setting a landing point and making it so they go there is no longer working” Do you happen to know if this is also broken in the Havok1-based simulaor? We merged with 1.19.2 just prior to this deploy and have not, as far as I know, touched that part of the code for our physics work. This is just to establish which team should handle resolution of this issue. Thanks, Sidewinder P.S. We’ll test both anyway if you’re not sure, but if you have also seen this on a Havok1-based simulator after the 1.19.2 deploy it should go to a different place for resolution. · 17 Jayme Llewellyn Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:41 PM I downloaded the lastest release client yesterday and played today for about 3 hours and experienced four crashes, poor rez time and some lag. Until Linden Labs upgrade the main grid and anything that hasn’t been upgraded for five years, and until you get rid of the bot’s and the bot farms, Sidewinder, you will continue to have problems with the game. · 18 Atashi Toshihiko Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:42 PM Hmm I spoke too soon - I’m having problems with vehicles… one that used to fly and hover in havoc4 (and havoc1 of course) now can’t get airborne… has something changed with mass or buoyancy? · 19 Jayme Llewellyn Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:43 PM Just a note on my last comment ….. bells and whistles are fine and dandy, but all they are is just another paint-job to cover up the gaping cracks in the foundations. fix the foundations (grid, game engine) and you’ll find that more than half of the current problems will disappear. Even if it means shutting down SL for a week - do it. Us regular “old timers” won’t mind. · 20 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:45 PM @15 Cheshyr: I thought I remembered this being resolved, and It turns out this bug was closed as “won’t resolve” internally, since the issue is based on a code anomaly in Havok1 that has been fixed in Havok4. For more information please see this jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1880 “Some vehicles turn very slowly in Havok4″. /Sidewinder · 21 Tarius Auxarmes Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:53 PM I usually dont comment, but I completely agree with Jayme, fixing the core foundation of SL will certainly fix alot of things and it wouldnt hurt bringing more people in. · 22 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:58 PM @19 Jayme and 21 Tarius: There are other teams working on viewer stability and grid stability. This project addresses another cornerstone of system stability - that of the simulator itself. The simulator is not the whole system, by any means, but it’s instabilities have limited what people can do with Second Life, and this new version has already been shown to noticeably reduce simulator crash rate. It is a piece in the puzzle of overall grid stability and I believe is exactly the kind of work that you are advocating. /Sidewinder · 23 MR Little Says: March 28th, 2008 at 10:04 PM @ 17,91 Jayme @21 Tarius errr… havok 4 IS fixing the core foundation · 24 LegsLover Lusch Says: March 28th, 2008 at 10:21 PM Hey’up everyone, I just reformatted my puter and downloaded the 1.19.0.5 sl version, and it’s absolutely crap. All controlls and interfaces are the old version, half my inventory is missing, graphics are all over the place, I can’t anything and I’m mad as a bee stuck in a fat womans panties,lol. Where’s the windlight version, where can I get it? · 25 LegsLover Lusch Says: March 28th, 2008 at 10:22 PM that was can’t rez anything,lol · 26 Your Conscience Says: March 28th, 2008 at 10:37 PM @7 (Daten) Make sure that your estate allows you to set the landing point. Even though you may own land on an estate, if the etate manager has a landing point set, then it will automatically override anything you try to set on your own land. This has been my experience in H4. · 27 Sera Galbraith Says: March 28th, 2008 at 10:56 PM LegsLover - you want the Release Candidate. It’s up to 1.19.1 (3) or (4) I think. It’s on the Test Software page and it’s got Windlight. Cheers. · 28 Sean Heying Says: March 28th, 2008 at 11:00 PM The molasses problem, in one of its forms as I see it, is reproducable as SVC-1937. · 29 Jayme Llewellyn Says: March 28th, 2008 at 11:19 PM Mr Little …. apparently not. Because people are still crashing. If you read my original post in this thread and then Sidewinder’s comment, the grid stability is another thing altogether. Please be sure to read all threads correctly in the future. · 30 Sean Heying Says: March 29th, 2008 at 12:35 AM Jayme.. Havok4 will go towards removing alot of crash vector and also towards improving lag and performance in regions once implemented. Concrete testing performed by us early adopters has proced this to be one of the most important stability initiatives Linden Lab has taken. MT Little is right. · 31 Aminom Marvin Says: March 29th, 2008 at 1:32 AM Jayme Llewellyn: please speak to yourself. Trying to speak for a group of people (such as old timers) is an attempt to inflate one’s argument. I myself DO mind if SL was taken offline for a week. It would break me financially as I make a living off of SL and pay the rent with it. There are many other people in such situations as well. Also, what good would taking SL offline for a week do? It wouldn’t shift resources towards coding- liaisons and support people probably don’t know the intricacies of coding SL. They couldn’t test anything, as they wouldn’t have a normal use load to see how stuff runs. There is no rational reason for thinking that a week or a month etc of off-line time would magically fix things- it is just an irrational argument I’ve heard time and time again. · 32 Sean Heying Says: March 29th, 2008 at 3:33 AM /me winks at Sidewinder…. you know… now would be a perfect tme to get the client RC team to plug in the patch for builds up to 4096M so that we early adopters can test it before you take Havok live. · 33 Mini Pinion Says: March 29th, 2008 at 4:15 AM Still no fix for the slow-walk through holding spacebar being broken in the H4 sims? .. I really can’t believe there’s still only one vote (mine) on the Jira issue (SVC-1786). It really IS a pain positioning yourself properly, without the ability to walk at a slow speed · 34 Elvis Orbit Says: March 29th, 2008 at 5:27 AM This is a great update! All working fine hereon my region. I spent 6 hours building a Shinto Shrine on my sim worked great. As well been on all day RC 3 No crashes nothing. Very smooth and stable for me. Thanks for this Havok™4 update. It’s getting close! · 35 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 29th, 2008 at 6:18 AM @29 Jayne: There are several causes of crashes, and grid stability is not “an entirely different thing” from the work being done in this project. This simulator update reduces one significant cause of crashes - the crashes that happen when a whole region crashes and throws all avatars on the region off at once. Viewer crashes cause individual crashes, where one avatar at a time crashes. Both of these are important areas to resolve and both related to system stability. There are other areas of the system that do not directly cause crashes but can improve reliability and are being addressed. Regards, Sidewinder · 36 elena Says: March 29th, 2008 at 6:54 AM great job · 37 RTW Blackburn Says: March 29th, 2008 at 8:07 AM I agree with Aminom Marvin. I can’t speak for SL specifically but I am involved with scientific software services mostly in cheminformatics. The best place to find stability issues is in the Real World. No test frame they could possibly create to test issues will work as well as it being live users are the best bug finders. The biggest problem however is bug reports. People need to report them in great detail and preferably with a formula or process for reproducing the issue repeatably. Something as complex as SL, this may be unrealistic. But good/user beta testers, are a key. LL might consider paying their beta testers a few Lindens as incentives to write better detailed bug reports. Really good beta testers are hard to find. Regards, RTW · 38 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 29th, 2008 at 8:08 AM I have one report of a hover-script vehicle not behaving correctly (actually because of a bug fix we did - the script it was based on relied on the buggy behavior apparently). Are others seeing issues with any hover vehicles? Thanks, Sidewinder · 39 Argent Stonecutter Says: March 29th, 2008 at 8:13 AM Sidewinder: what are you supposed to do to clear llTargetOmega() for physical objects now? · 40 Vic Says: March 29th, 2008 at 8:23 AM Where can I get a list of H4 sims? I’d love to get over to one and try it out, or find out if I’m now sitting on one because I’m having a REALLY bad time right now :/ · 41 Ari Blackthorne Says: March 29th, 2008 at 8:55 AM @ Gwyneth Llewelyn You put in a support ticket - under Estate - changes - Havok Early Adopter. However, I put my request in more than a month a go. I suspect Concierge (they are the ones who handle this) is swamped. So even if you put in the rquest now, it’s likely they won’t get to you in a ‘timely’ fashion and the grid will have moved to it by that time. I’ve resigned myself to assuming that’s what will happen for me, though I do hold out a little hope they’ll still get to me before them. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

16 *NEW* quick tips to enlighten your Second Life!

60 Responses to “16 *NEW* quick tips to enlighten your SecondLife!” · 1 Chilko Tardis Says: May 28th, 2008 at 4:57 PM Yes Torley, we all love you · 2 Christos Atlantis Says: May 28th, 2008 at 5:25 PM Love everything about all you do, well apart from the pink and green watermellon fantasy colors…lol, I have a question about the whole bunch of textures you made, what programe did you use, and how did you come up with all those neat names? Where mushrooms involed in the proccess? · 3 Ann Otoole Says: May 28th, 2008 at 5:26 PM Sadly the ARC is not very accurate and is just some numbers someone concocted and plugged into the code. Many many of us have found this metric to be rather misleading and it would be better if LL would stop promoting this “feature” as it is clearly intended to cause social strife and is nothing more than an arrogant attempt by pastrami linden to blame the residents of SL for the awful performance windlight smashed SL with. So please stop trying to make sl a flat barren landscape of ugly avatars and cubes for structures *with a pretty sky*. Either code for viewer efficiency and support what the *CUSTOMERS* are doing or just say no more attachments and everyone has to be dressed in flat black uniforms like the windlight team was at that town hall meeting. They really made a point that was not missed by some of us nor was the point very attractive. All they needed were a certain style military hat to complete the effect. Remember, SL was great without windlight and the residents never asked for it. It is pretty and all but windlight is what is causing performance problems. Not prim attachments. Prim attachments were here long before this windlight thing was forced on the community. · 4 Garn Conover Says: May 28th, 2008 at 5:29 PM Yeay! Torlized Bah Lag meter still no help fps of 5-10 normal for me - its images loading (not draw disatance) any1 know a fix? im me · 5 SLurl Link Says: May 28th, 2008 at 5:48 PM Prolific!!! · 6 Hollys Chevalier Says: May 28th, 2008 at 6:19 PM Hey Christos, I adore pink and green! Torley, don’t ever stop being you. Great helpful info as always, thank you! · 7 231 Says: May 28th, 2008 at 6:27 PM @4 Garn: The “lag meter” is for showing the condition of your network connection to the sim you’re in, so it isn’t about your viewer’s rendering speed. If your viewer’s framerate is too low, try lowering the graphics detail settings some and/or shrink the size of the viewer’s window. @Torley: Thanks for showing people how to use the lag meter. While the rendering costs aren’t 100% representative of an attachment’s impact on rendering speed, it’s an excellent rough guide (for example how invisible attachments slow down rendering). So far the only strong complaints I’ve seen about ARC are from residents who sell very high cost products (think 500 prim boots and hair), who probably fear loss of business if more render-friendly products become the norm. Rather than complain about ARC, how about taking the initiative to build more efficiently? · 8 Jessica Hultcrantz Says: May 28th, 2008 at 6:35 PM Regarding the ARC… I second Ann in post #3 this time and adds that ARC breaks (or is a tool for breaking) the community standards at a pair of points… [quote] 1. Intolerance Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life’s Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole. 2. Harassment Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. [/quote] Besides that, keep up the good work Torley · 9 Jessica Hultcrantz Says: May 28th, 2008 at 6:37 PM ok i missed a [/quote][quote] between point 1 and 2… but you get the point Btw…. my ARC is still in the 5500 league and i don’t plan to change that as long as my old barely minimum system manages it *grins* · 10 Mifune Says: May 28th, 2008 at 6:45 PM @3: It IS prim attachments that lag up the SL client. More prims = more polygons, and depending on how robust your GFX card is, you can only handle a certain amount. Simple as that. Add in things like textures, shiny, glow, and an assortment of other things and your computer will be slowed down when someone walks in the sim with over 9000 attached prims. Resolution? ARC. Now there is a rough figure to base how heavy an avatar is. Actual Polygonal Count X # of textures X texture resolutions X effects would be a better gauge, but ARC is still a blessing for content creators who wish to streamline and make their designs highly efficient. Anyone can throw hundreds of prims at something and call it “detailed” but a good designer will be detailed+efficent, keeping the experience of the end user in mind. Thank you Torley for keeping ARC highlighted. The more savvy end users are about the nature of SL and the way graphics are rendered or the way scripts perform on a server, the better the community will get. Savvy users = higher expectations of quality from the content creators. This demand in turn fuels higher quality content as the content creators educate and improve themselves, which then translates into better experiences for everyone. Instead of catering to the lowest common denominator, LL is doing the right thing, by educating people. · 11 Rado Says: May 28th, 2008 at 7:10 PM Because the tutorial of Torley Linden always is irregular, unless you note, Blog to be immediately renewed, overlooking tend. Such opportunity very for the beginner friendly.　Thanks Linden · 12 Grant Lefavre Says: May 28th, 2008 at 7:35 PM Friendly thankings Torley. Great job as usual! On the subject of ARC though. I tend to agree with the point that LL should endevour to make it possible for content creators to make whatever they can/like without being branded as “High ARC” creators. Better performance is what most Residents want and not pseudo restrictions. If I did have 9000 prim attachments I’d probably hit the SL client, with or without Windlight, but maybe just a little less without it, which I think is Ann’s point. But, I like Windlight, and want to keep it, so what we need is a better client?? I’m not an expert, but is ARC an admission that things can’t get much better? For the Savvy residents who wish to be kind to their fellow residents, it would be great if vendors always highlighted how many prims were in their products, so we’d know before we bought them. · 13 Ann Otoole Says: May 28th, 2008 at 8:00 PM Got Lag? Buy a modern computer. Stop complaining because your experience is laggy. Just because you have poor graphics and lag doesn’t mean everyone does. The $800 pc i picked up at best buy has quad core, 4GB ram, 8500GT, and vista 64 bit. I don’t get lag. Anywhere. · 14 Pyewacket Bellman Says: May 28th, 2008 at 8:07 PM ARC - the virtual SUV. Big grin at Torley! · 15 Rascal Ratelle Says: May 28th, 2008 at 8:26 PM I would also like to bring this to your attention: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7139 · 16 TC the ExPat Says: May 28th, 2008 at 8:30 PM @13 Yep, Ann’s right. LL effectively killed old or lower end machines with Windlight. No matter what you trim or disable it’s not going to give you a great user experience without at least a new video card. I too have a quad core and a 8800GT videocard. Same thing… I don’t see any client lag. From the looks of Torley’s videos, I would bet he has similar hardware. Bottom line, without the hardware you are not going to get your SL experience to look like one of Torley’s videos. I would be interested to know the effects of LAG on different design strategies. If you reduce the number of prims to reduce LAG it would seem to me that the most obvious way to keep the detail would be to increase the detail on the texture. So which is better, a piece of jewelry made of 10 small prims with simple textures, or 3 bigger prims with 1024 x 1024 detailed texture? (An off the top of my head example, but I think it explains my question.) · 17 Solomon Devoix Says: May 28th, 2008 at 9:04 PM Since different kinds of prims have different polygon counts, the LEAST that the ARC could do is take that into account and, for example, rate a torus higher than a cube… [rolls eyes] · 18 Mifune Says: May 28th, 2008 at 9:11 PM ARC is just another tool so that we can have a number to look at for consideration while building, like prim count. @Buying faster and faster video cards: That’s a hell of a band-aid approach to an ongoing problem of irresponsibility with builds/excessive attachments. In the spirit of Westboro B*****t C****h, i’d say that’d be the equivalent of being a ~Lag Enabler~. · 19 Destiny Niles Says: May 28th, 2008 at 9:16 PM Way to go Torely, bump you boss down in the blog lol. · 20 Ivantwin Rogers Says: May 28th, 2008 at 9:42 PM mmm , that notice is cool, now i can discriminate to all people in my land, if i see some people with yellow color in avatar cost i want use EJECT!! FROM MY LAND, because now the lag problems that is not for linden labs, the lag problem is for the people!! thanks to torley linden! yea, · 21 whatever Says: May 28th, 2008 at 9:59 PM Are these any where in world? You know where they might do some good. · 22 Pierre Says: May 28th, 2008 at 10:05 PM Wow, Torley, hard to keep up with all those tutorials. Did you consider creating an RSS feed for them so we can auto-download them an watch them while commuting from home - work? That would also fix the problem mentioned by #11 · 23 Winter Ventura Says: May 28th, 2008 at 10:26 PM ARC is incredibly deceptive. Make a 255 prim object, Set it (via script) to 100% transparent. This ibject will NOT be rendered by the client. Yet wearing it, will RAISE your ARC score. Take 20 of them (or so) and attach one to every attachment point on your avatar. Your ARC score will go through the roof, and yet the actual WEIGHT of rendering your avatar will not change at all. NOW.. via script, make ALL these objects visible. Your ARC score will DROP.. and the complexity of your avatr will skyrocket. Lower ARC, Higher Lag. Please stop advertising this obviously flawed “feature”.. all it does is give people an excuse to treat each other poorly. · 24 Britpop Says: May 28th, 2008 at 10:57 PM @23 winter: check the link http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/05/01/who-me-yes-you-couldnt-be-then-who-introducing-avatar-rendering-cost/ “- 4 points added for each transparent face of the prim. Rationale: Alpha creates a lot of overhead by needing to be sorted every frame AND by breaking batches.” besides that, having the lowest arc isn’t really “cool” - I got 1100, 970 just by my hair. I am not going to run around bald now or wear the ridiculous linden hair. However, there are people who and occasions where ARC can help. · 25 Spontaneous Radio Says: May 28th, 2008 at 11:43 PM Great job Torley, your the best. Keep up the good work. · 26 Ivantwin Rogers Says: May 29th, 2008 at 12:04 AM yea thanks to Torley Linden, great job, now i can discriminate more easy with all comunity in my land all people with yellow color in avatar cost, Eject Power from the land · 27 Wyald Woolley Says: May 29th, 2008 at 12:09 AM ARC doesn’t seem to be a feature of the current viewer, seems I’d need to run a RC (beta) viewer to use ARC. It seems to be a good tool for designers to use to evaluate their own creations, but I think letting a person evaluate another avatar has a lot of room for misuse. · 28 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 12:51 AM @24 that’s all well and good for PARTIALLY transparent textures.. but I’m speaking about COMPLETELY INVISIBLE prims.. which are simply NOT RENDERED. there’s no sorting done. “hide” your prims, and the SOCER exponentially increases.. SHOW them, and the SCORE DECREASES. Try it yourself sometime.. instead of beleiving what you read. 4000+ prims.. hidden they don’t increase lag at all. But they increase the ARC score like mad. SHow the prims, and the arc score drops to near noting, yet the LAG goes through the roof. · 29 Sasha Nurmi Says: May 29th, 2008 at 1:23 AM Greetings Torley and other SL residents. although most of the vids are stuff I already know, but there was stuff I didn’t know, but none the less good work, new beginners to SL will def have use for these · 30 Mifune Says: May 29th, 2008 at 1:39 AM @23/28: I can see your logic, but it is flawed, because the scope of lag issues in SL is not only limited to clientside. Have you even worn 4000 prims and tried changing regions? I’ve worn around 5000 prims once to see what it does (I made a lot of people mad in the process too). I changed regions and it almost crashed a sim. While the 5000 prims are invisible, sure there might not be clientside lag because your GFX card does not have to render the prims, but instead, you now introduce server side lag from wearing that much stuff. Wear 5000 prims and TP to the Crash Me region. There will be a slowdown in Time Dilation as the SL server has to transmit the data from all 5000 of your prims to all of the clients in the region. This is on top of transmitting the data of the agents and objects in the region to your computer. This includes having to transmit that X avatar is wearing 5000 prims with these attributes and attachment positions. It has to report the attribute and position for each and every prim you are wearing. Even though they are invisible, the basic architecture of SL platform has to transmit that data no matter what to ensure that all users on a server are seeing the same thing, which eats up the available processing power. Processor bandwidth is limited; hidden or not, wearing too many prims will be laggy, one way or the other. Now consider if everyone wears around 1000 prims @ 20 users in a sim. It’s not a pretty picture…it’s amazing that SL can even run as it is. Ever notice the slowdown in time dilation when someone enters a sim? The ARC scoring still needs work to be truly accurate, but hiding the prims doesnt make things any better. Invisible prim will save on the client side lag, but server side lag of having too many prims still exists. A good ARC stat may have separate values for: Clientside lag: #of prims + #of textures + size of textures + attributes Serverside lag: what percentage of processing power it takes to transmit all of the data of an avatar and its attachments + efficiency of the active scripts within those attachments Base the red yellow and green colorings for average hardware loadouts of the majority of SL users (this metric is already collected by the client, I sure wish they made this public). · 31 Sascha Says: May 29th, 2008 at 1:42 AM Well this feature is misleading and will only cause harassment. What I ask myself is why you introduce this feature, there must be a reason for that, or you have something in mind. So the next step will be a limit on how high the ARC can get. All those tools always started grief. And even if my ARC is too high for some people’s taste, i won’t change it, my graphic card is capable of doing that. But then people might eject me from their land. So where is that phrase gone Your world your imagination? Well I think the discussion is fruitless anyway since LL always did what they wanted without listening to the community. But one point i like to say is that , if this causes harassment Torley has violated the terms of services: — In addition to abiding at all times by the Community Standards, you agree that you shall not: … (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden Lab at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, causes tort, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another’s privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; · 32 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 1:57 AM 7650 prims… 30x 255 prim attachments. Bare: ARC SCORE 1 Visible: ARC SCORE 306 Invisible: ARC SCORE 183906 Bare: 18fps Visible: 14fps Invisible: 13.3 fps What was this tool good for again? · 33 Alvi Halderman Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:03 AM ROFL….. Thx Torley to Help the Ressidents Of SL with your Vids · 34 More Second Life tutorials : The Metaverse Journal - Australia’s Virtual World News Service Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:07 AM [...] prolific Torley Linden has released sixteen more tutorial videos (at around 2 minutes each) for newer Second Life users or anyone who [...] · 35 GRRRRRRRRR Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:13 AM *sighs* It’s you guys at LL who created second life without thinkin of the consiquenses! And now you guys at LL turn it around and start blaming your residents? Shame on you! What good is SL if I can’t dress up properaly. I don’t want to run ugly and naked and bold around. Shame on you LL! @ Ann Otoole What kind of remark is that: “Got Lag? Buy a modern computer. Stop complaining because your experience is laggy. Just because you have poor graphics and lag doesn't mean everyone does. The $800 pc i picked up at best buy has quad core, 4GB ram, 8500GT, and vista 64 bit. I don't get lag. Anywhere.” According to the requierments, LL says we don’t need a computer that heavy! And not all people can effort to buy a new computer. · 36 Paula Langset Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:19 AM ahahah, ARC video trips at second 02 in both the blog page and YouTube. Is there a hidden meaning in it ? :))) Well, at least in my computer. I maybe should upgrade that · 37 Phantom Ninetails Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:40 AM Sigh. What is with all these people complaining about ARC? Most attachments can still look great without being 255 prims. Swords are a very common culprit, and FOR SOME REASON EVERY SINGLE PRIM IN EVERY SWORD I HAVE SEEN IS A PARTICLE EMITTER, if you want to have a sword emit particles, put the emitter in ONE prim, not EVERY prim! This goes beyond swords of course but they are a great example because they are terrible offendors without needing to be! · 38 dumisani Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:44 AM Is it just me or are some of these videos no longer available? I keep getting that annoying message when trying to watch these imbedded clips directly. Regardless, great job as usual, Torley. Hey, why don’t they give you the job of customer relations as well? You’re doing it better than most, include the actual PR that pops up every now and then with those ‘I feel your pain’ messages of hers · 39 Tali Says: May 29th, 2008 at 2:58 AM Winter’s experiment is quite informative. The claim is that invisible prims do not affect performance at all and so should not be counted. She tests to prove her point, and the numbers do not support this at all; indeed her framerate drops when she’s wearing lots of invisible prims, just as the higher ARC hints it would. Granted, the ARC score may wildly overestimate how much the impact will be, but the original claim that the score was working backwards is obviously not true. So the tool is good for showing you that, despite your assumptions about how things work, invisible prims are indeed worse for performance than opaque ones. · 40 Verdana Klaar Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:22 AM @13 said : ” Got Lag? Buy a modern computer. Stop complaining because your experience is laggy. Just because you have poor graphics and lag doesn't mean everyone does ” The PC (and Tuxedo) guru again wrote before thinking. Most average graphical devices are able to render fast a set of simple polygons since a couple of years (the basic graphical item being a triangle like in many 3D applications). In most cases the bottleneck is the network link, either on the client side or on the server side. You just forget to think that SL is only a web appication like so many - even though a sophisticated one. @13 said “The $800 pc i picked up at best buy has quad core, 4GB ram, 8500GT, and vista 64 bit” There is no need for such a configuration excepted for memory may be, Any 2+ GHz CPU can do well. As for a 64 bit software it is absolutely of no help since, again, the point is the network, not the computation capacity or the address range capability factor. Anyway i can understand you’re very proud to have such a technology marvel (lol). @28 said : “I'm speaking about COMPLETELY INVISIBLE prims.. which are simply NOT RENDERED” Of course they are rendered at first since the primitive shape exists. Want an example ? Rezz a phantom full-transparent plain small cube as a telehub, then TP to this landpoint, the prim will appear during 1 sec or so (btw this is why things are all “greyish” at time - full-fransparent or not). · 41 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:27 AM “So the tool is good for showing you that, despite your assumptions about how things work, invisible prims are indeed worse for performance than opaque ones.” Next time you hold an event.. tell everyone to show up with an ARC less than 1000.. I’ll show up wearing 7650 prims, with an ARC score of 306. · 42 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:31 AM I don’t understand how 305 points can take away 4 frames per second.. but 186,600 MORE points, only takes away HALF a frame more per second. This wasn’t a scientific study, and I had an assistant nearby who kept changing clothes as well. it wasn’t a fully controlled test. My argument still stands.. The tool is unreliable. If 7650 prims can be a score of 306 or 180,000… and not change the framerate noticably switching from 306 to 180,000. · 43 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:34 AM “Of course they are rendered at first since the primitive shape exists. Want an example ? Rezz a phantom full-transparent plain small cube as a telehub, then TP to this landpoint, the prim will appear during 1 sec or so (btw this is why things are all “greyish” at time - full-fransparent or not).” That’s true of 100% alpha TEXTURES.. but it’s not true of 100% “SetAlpha” prims. (the alpha setting on the texture panel. When a 100% alpha texture loads, there is a brief period where it, like every texture, is displayed as “standin grey” while the texture downloads. This is not typically true of prims that are set as “alpha” via script. Since the face is set to 100% alpha, regardless of what texture is displayed, even the grey “please wait” texture is not rendered. · 44 Mifune Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:35 AM I met Winter on the Crash Me sim and confirmed that prims that use llSetAlpha value of 100 are weighted very heavily, despite not being rendered. In the above posts, I was thinking of alpha textured prims and the special case invisiprim. Having any prims in a sim though, does eat up server and network resources. Since ARC has been generally referred to for clientside lag issues, the alpha value of 100 (completely invisible) shouldnt be having as much weight as it does. Hopefully that is fixed in a future RC before making it a main client feature. Lag from avatars a very complex issue to lump into one metric, so a separate “Server Rendering Cost” should accompany it to paint a much clearer picture of the things involved in lag in SL. · 45 Tali Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:43 AM “I'll show up wearing 7650 prims, with an ARC score of 306.” That still doesn’t change that wearing 7650 *invisible* prims would be *worse*. Apart from that, I don’t see the point in the “let us find a pathological example, and declare everything unusable” line of thought. You know wearing 7650 prims is bad. You don’t need the ARC to tell you that. There’s been enough talk about that ARC should not be used to harass people; neither should it be used to legitimize griefing. The ARC is just one more tool which can help you in some instances. Should we hide the FPS counter as well, since that can also reveal a ballpark figure about how much impact an avatar has? The ARC is no more authoritative than any other debug reading you can get from the engine. If people *decide* to use it for hard rules in their social context, that’s really up to themselves. · 46 Winter Ventura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:45 AM I definitely agree that walking around wearing 7650 prims is clearly not sane behaviour. That said.. my ARC is only 306 when doing so. People who keep defending ARC as a “good tool” need to reconsider.. if it thinks that an avatar walking around with half a sim’s worth of prims, is “Green”. · 47 Verdana Klaar Says: May 29th, 2008 at 3:53 AM @28 last point before i quit : why do you think there would be an option “view/highlight transparency” if the “full invisible” texturing stuff was not rendered as is (i.e.: invisible) ? Also a big thank you to the soooooooo lovely Torley who thought he reinvented the wheel by showing “his” invisible texture on one video here… may be he forgot to check that this is used since years in SL. But anyway he’s so prolific… · 48 Sean Heying Says: May 29th, 2008 at 4:04 AM The worrying thing is that some people will eject avatars with hisgh ARC counts when a more important cause of lag is how many scripts and particles are there · 49 Indeterminate Schism Says: May 29th, 2008 at 4:41 AM What’s the point of “glow”? Every example I’ve seen with more than a 0.1 setting for it is just whited-out unless I turn off basic shaders to disable glow. So - 0.0 is off, 0.5 is ‘pretty’, 0.1 is garish and anything more is useless? Is it just my graphics card or is that the way it’s meant to be? · 50 aSwede Says: May 29th, 2008 at 5:17 AM ARC, this wonderful tool. As in, you can make an educated guess about how you might affect others when you get close enough for them to have to render your avatar. And that is, as they say, all. When it comes to actual rendering, it’s all about polygons. And this has been pointed at by others. Rendering in OpenGL is, to put it simply, to let every polygon pass filters on its way to the screen. Applying textures is one filter. Changing alpha another. And finally, it shows up on your screen the way it should. The reason alpha is given such a high cost is that everything *behind* a transparent polygon also will have to be put through the filters to show up as intended. To argue that just because you don’t *see* the “invisible prim” on the screen it should not add to the cost is to miss the point. So, a polygon that doesn’t need to be put through the alpha filter will not force other polygons to do it either and that reduces the cost of rendering. Having a scene without polygons with alpha makes the whole scene render faster. And as a result, you can attach lots of prims (constructed by polygons) and still have a decent framerate. Add some alpha to the mix, and your framerate will drop. Arguing that ARC will give rise to some kind of discrimination or that LL by adding the feature is breaking the ToS or other things like that is just plain silly. Before ARC was added, people already knew that when some avatars entered the room/dance floor/spaceship their frame rate dropped like a stone. The person running the avatar might have no problem with it, having a state of the art computer, but it made all other suffer unless they had a new computer too. So, this is nothing new, it’s the same old thing with a cost tacked to it to make it easier for *everyone* to make educated guesses about the affect they have on the SL experience for others. Comparing SL to other games is also to miss the point. Game designers who are responsible for building objects in a game get a strict polygon count and to make it possible to show more of the complicated objects (high polygon count) fewer of the other objects can be on the screen at the same time. Simple math. In SL this is not the case, since the avatars move around, rez objects, change objects with scripts and other things that make it impossible to finetune a scene and get a nice and high framerate. So, there *is* a responsibility placed on the residents to play nice and not turn everything into a lag party. Arguing that Windlight is the reason for all that is bad in the world and that ARC is a copout by LL to try to shift the blame is also silly. With exactly the same hardware and drivers, I got *better* framerates in SL after Windlight got into the viewer and I could even activate some nice new features that would have killed my framerate before Windlight. I know, I know, I’m just one person, so my experience with Windlight is not enough to give proper support to my point but, for some reason, my gut feeling is that if a survey were to be done, the average framerate after the introduction of Windlight has gone up. · 51 Verdana Klaar Says: May 29th, 2008 at 5:30 AM Just a suggestion Indeterminate : why don’t you use the OnRez browser/viewer ? To me this is a good compromise between 1.19.4 and the series of recent RCs . May be you do not have so many options such as “glow” (which remains something mysterious), still you can keep doing nice things with it. After all we do not always need to add tons of useless maple syrup onto a pancake to make it sweet. Simple things can be among the best, provided a bit of imagination and creativity is into it. On the contrary “cosmetics” features can at time bring along undesired side-effects such as pushing forward raw technical know-how at the detriment of imagination. Picasso spent his entire life”un-learning” painting (ok, we are not Picasso - smile) · 52 Linda Brynner Says: May 29th, 2008 at 6:04 AM Wooo… Can I ask you to have diner we me haha :)) I just love these vids ! · 53 Creem Says: May 29th, 2008 at 6:26 AM @28: “I'm speaking about COMPLETELY INVISIBLE prims.. which are simply NOT RENDERED. there's no sorting done.” This is completely FALSE, unfortunately. Invisible prims are rendered by the client just the same as partially transparent prims. Try it out for yourself if you don’t believe me: go to a fairly empty place and wear a bunch of invisible attachments. I tried it just now for the sake of argument, and a few high-prim invisible attachments dropped my FPS from 72 to 26! Now imagine a room full of avatars like that, and it becomes clear very quickly that invisible attachments are a terrible idea. Maybe the 180,000 vs 306 ARCs is a bit exaggerated, but ARC is useful enough to tell you that invisible attachments can cause problems. Also, I don’t see the connection between ARC and discrimination. Anybody can have an ARC of 1 with a few mouse clicks (try “Detach All”). As 231 said, ARC provides a rough performance metric for an avatar’s appearance. It’s not perfect, but it can be very eye-opening to causes of viewer performance problems. Want a 5000 prim avatar? ARC won’t stop you, but if your avatar is offensive (for performance or other reasons), it’s the parcel owner’s right to eject you from their property. Once visual muting is released to the RC viewer, we will have a 2nd option: to reduce a visually-abusive avatar to a low-res avatar impostor. This will allow people who don’t care about performance to waltz around in 5000 prim avatars while allowing others nearby to enjoy high framerates. Maybe you can guess which category I’ll be in. =) · 54 Obsidian Stormwind Says: May 29th, 2008 at 6:46 AM I wonder if we could request a feature enhancement for the client to have it so 100% transparent prims are not rendered (or rather that other prims behind said prim do not have to filter through) and help improve some client-side performance? A workaround that may be good is for people to use a texture with a 100% transparent alpha layer instead of the llSetAlpha() function. This seems to use less resources on the client, if the ARC is relatively accurate on this issue. · 55 Around, Over … or THROUGH the Second Life Mountain? « Common.Sensible Says: May 29th, 2008 at 6:54 AM [...] Okay, my words, not Torley. Only the great addictive one-and-only Torley can do it right, so I’ll stop trying even. However, what has become an exciting tradition to look forward to, our resident Watermelon and high-energy, charismatic ‘that tutorial guy’ Torley has released a whole new set of video tutorial Quick Tips. [...] · 56 Jessica Hultcrantz Says: May 29th, 2008 at 7:54 AM @#53 creem: “Also, I don't see the connection between ARC and discrimination. Anybody can have an ARC of 1 with a few mouse clicks (try “Detach All”)” THAT IS DISCRIMINATION! In the “your world, Your imagination” ™ -world e have the right to wear what we want, and not granting that is true discrimination. Besides that,… I persist in staying at 5500-level ARC and if i ever get ejected for that, an AR ti LL is a second away. As stated before, using ARC like that violates the CS pretty heavily. And no, ARC is way off when it comes to client lag anyway as my red-red level doesn’t inmpact significally on my budget system. (P4 1,6 GHz/GfeForce MX4) so it is missleading. Been there, tried that, and will happily AR any kindof even slight abusive use of ARC in the future. · 57 New SL quick tips, and Torley tells on customer service « I’m Just an Avatar Says: May 29th, 2008 at 8:08 AM [...] by Nanci Barthelmess on 29 May 2008 Torley rolled out 16 new quick tip videos that were prompted by resident requests. And at less than 2 minutes long you can get your answer [...] · 58 aSwede Says: May 29th, 2008 at 8:15 AM @56 To argue that since you don’t have problems rendering yourself, noone should complain is plain ignorance. Unless you’re going for a subtle degree of sarcasm. And there are lots of places in SL where I’m not welcomed unless I comply with the rules set up by the SIM owner. Some places I’m not allowed to fly (even though I like to fly) and in some places I’m not allowed to dress the way I want. And I accept this since it’s not my SIM so I’m not paying for it nor making the rules. There are lots of other places for me to go to to fly and dress as I want. To call this discrimination is nothing but broken rethoric. And when it comes to rights, you are also mistaken. Try donning your finest scripted penis and walk into a PG SIM, or some other place where there are other ideas about conduct. Slum it at Frank’s in your torn jeans and rugged T-shirt, shoeless and dirty, and see how long you get to stay. This is not discrimination, this is sticking to rules set up by the SIM (or parcel) owner. You don’t have any *right* to go anywhere and act and dress as you please, plain and simple. Do you file an AR as soon as you stumble on a ban line too? Filing an AR for people telling you to punish everyone around you less or ejecting you when you won’t is just selfish, ignorant and wrong and adding to the workload of the LL support staff for no reason. · 59 Crystal Falcon Says: May 29th, 2008 at 8:23 AM I’m sorry Winter, but 100% alpha objects are rendered, which is a feature one of my products takes advantage of! Also, in world, you can bump into them or sit on them (but obviously not as attachments). However as attachments, they can affect your mass, which I think is how my Multi Gadget works (it’s size changes when you move). I think part of the reason alpha objects are rendered is because the system can’t know if it will be made visible in the next instant. The ARC score IS applicable as your test showed, if not a linear gauge for YOUR system’s FPS. You might find others’ viewers more greatly impacted–which, isn’t that the whole point? To get a clue of how your AV impacts others? (You obviously already know how you are impacted, LOL.) The thing we’ve learned from LL sharing this info, is it would be better to hide prims inside our AV’s body, rather than scripting them to be transparent. Also, some of our assumptions were not as accurate as we might have thought! · 60 Psistorm Ikura Says: May 29th, 2008 at 8:24 AM regarding most of the ARC woes and general performance issues: - allow megaprims for verified residents (payment info on file suffices, not age verification, it can be faked anyways, thus pointless) - maybe clean up your render code some. your memory management seems horrible in my eyes. Ive got 768 megs of video ram, yet in a crowded club, I view 10 people, then turn my view. it stutters as new things are loaded into memory. I immediately turn back and it stutters again because it DROPPED all the data from what just fell outside the view frustum. people have more ram than the disk cache, people have lots of video memory. make SL use it - simple and easy suggestion: avatar impostors switch on quicker based on amount of avatars in the FOV - allow mesh import for verified residents. full blown mesh import, with limits on UV channels and vertex count/poly count. this will solve a LOT of promblems where sculpts arent an applicable solution and will help with the vertices wasted by prims and sculpts alike. oh and allow custom collision/physics meshes. - and for the love of got, PLEASE write decent alpha sorting. it works with the trees, i observed, but apparently with nothing else We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? 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IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability Announcement

87 Responses to “IBM and Linden Lab InteroperabilityAnnouncement” · 1 Sans Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:19 AM Exciting news! Congrats! · 2 taotakashi Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:28 AM Q: Has the code finally being made available? · 3 Kenny Humby Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:29 AM WOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!! · 4 Ann Otoole Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:31 AM Your going to take more than the “utmost care” in respect to IP rights you do not own. You are going to make it impossible for any transfer to take place for any item where the permissions are not explicitly granted on an item by item basis. (should not be that difficult to code but now your going to have to deal with open sourcers that will negate these controls so it has to be server side and that code can never be open sourced. And that means your going to have to make it impossible for a hacked client to send false information. I.e.; the majority of code goes server side other than rendering) Since you are going to have to work on the permissions system there are a number of opportunities for improvement that can make a lot of issues less devastating to the success of Secondlife. I recommend you begin conducting these meetings in respect to all this in a more public fashion so all the creators of Secondlife can have their rightful say in the matter. We are not all Luddites but most everyone has concerns given the existing state of affairs in Secondlife in respect to rampant and blatant IP theft. But congratulations on your test. I find it interesting you proceed with such tests prior to engineering the complete solution. Perhaps you need to learn about software engineering and the aspect of how requirements control the developers and not the other way around. · 5 James Benedek Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:31 AM Can’t wait till it goes public! Keep up the good work Linden Labs!!! · 6 Just a thought Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:39 AM Erm - in what way does this differ from the report over a month ago at http://zhaewry.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/happy-jumpy-ruths-interop-takes-a-step/ ? · 7 Gilles Misrahi Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:45 AM Hello, Congratulations. When will it be for everyone ? What is the next step in interoperability ? Regards from Paris. Gilles Misrahi. · 8 les Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:49 AM How very cutting edge! (lies) What is with the propaganda machine these days? Who’s all this window dressing for? · 9 Cocoanut Koala Says: July 8th, 2008 at 12:54 AM “Linden Lab will not design a system that lets people openly violate the permissions of SL goods and take them to other worlds.” Glad to hear that our items will retain the permissions we set on them. And I am holding you to this! I hope that we will also be able to choose whether our items can go to other worlds at all, particularly on a grid-by-grid basis. It would not be a wonderful thing to have one’s items taken to worlds one cannot even gain access to. Will we? coco · 10 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:02 AM test · 11 taotakashi Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:09 AM I wanted to point out that this work is quite the beginning and not really useful to anybody else than developers. It is a first but important step to make interoperability happen. Before anything goes live or beta which makes sense to end users some time will pass. Other important steps in this area is work happening in the pyogp project which soon might have a basic agent domain implementation and has a login script already. You can find it at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pyogp There is a mailing list and irc channel available as well. · 12 Phoenix Psaltery Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:11 AM Excellent news. Bring on the future. · 13 Ahab Schmo Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:18 AM Sounds cool, but nice way to cannibalize your own business!! · 14 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:21 AM Lots of discussion has taken place the past few weeks, if you missed it. Look through the links below for more info: Forum/jira discussions: jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1272 jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1277 forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=267473 Technical discussions: wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Protecting_content_in_an_open_grid zhaewry.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/happy-jumpy-ruths-interop-takes-a-step/ wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-06-10 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_June_10 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_June_17 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Which_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_Jun_26 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-07-10 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_July_01 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Which_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_Jul_3 wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_July_03 · 15 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:23 AM That should have been: wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-07-01 · 16 Tepic Harlequin Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:24 AM Fascinating Jim, it’s a SIM, but not as we know it… (raise one eyebrow) Very interesting experiment - but I guess only a small step, after all what are our AVs but a combination of ourselves, the appearance we have chosen, the things we wear and the abilities we have from the attachments we chose. So, if we teleport over to OpenSim, but lose all but the ourselves component…. ummm… well Still, it sounds fun, and I look forward to seeing what happens next. PS the video was hilarious, and well worth watching! · 17 Sling Trebuchet Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:30 AM What we saw was basically a logout and a login back to back. The permission system needs redesign even for SL as it stands. Perhaps extensions for inter-grid would include - Permission to take an item component to a grid that is certified in a trust system - *a trust system with real teeth*. - Permission to take an item component to another grid IP? Created by someone with no identity in a particular grid?? Group functions would not extend outside of a grid I suspect! Some global grid-integrated IM system would be required. Friends would need a revamp. Cash? Ooooooooh · 18 Seamless teleport between virtual worlds at Mobitrends Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:33 AM [...] kind of an announcement that Linden Labs and IBM made today, they have been working for one year on the OpenGrid Protocol that is supposed to enable [...] · 19 catcotton Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:36 AM “Q: Can regular SL users teleport to an OpenSim server now? No. This experiment was conducted on a test grid under controlled conditions. Second Life users cannot currently teleport to OpenSim, or vice-versa.” Good keep testing it; and I do mean this; every bit of code. Because I do not want to log in and find my L$ or inventory taken/ripped off because of yet another programing mistake or security flaw not detected by LL. @13 agreed. Cat · 20 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:41 AM Sling, nope that was NOT what you saw at all. The realXtend viewer folk have ben doing logout/login for some time now. What this blog entry discusses is login to Second LIfe via the SL beta login server, and then teleport from one world to the other without logging out or back in. The protocols for the login and teleport are on the wiki. They are part of the new Open Grid Protocols that the AWG (Linden Lab, IBM, and company) are designing to allow any and all virtual worlds to inter-operate. · 21 Jonathen Snow Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:42 AM Hillarious There is already a program around that lets you save your created content to your harddrive to re-rezz it again on another OpenSimulator based platform. There already several grids running, based on the reversed engineering by OpenSimulator. These two will be combined in the near future and my guess is that it will beat Linden to it. Simply because opensource groups that do not have to protect their financial potential interests have more freedom to develop really what the people want. Also I have seen contributions of vision for the future that go further then current Lindens. The good thing is that this cannot be stopped anymore. Linden was the pioneer but has lost its connection to the people completely. If something is proven then it is that people can win from companies if they want to and are with many. Yes comments are deleted and people are banned for life on this Blog. But it won’t stop the Mayority. I will celebrate the OpenSimulator project when it reaches 5 years. In the end, Democracy and a little anarchy will win Never the less, Linden will be in the history books as the ones who created it and for that, and that only, I thank them from the bottom of my heart. · 22 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:51 AM Geeze, Jonathen, read the chat logs at the URLs in messages 14 and 15. The OpenSImulator folk have been working with Linden Lab and IBM as part of the AWG. Zha Ewry of IBM (in Torley’s video), founder of AW Groupies, wrote login code for OpenSim to handle the login from Second Life a few weeks ago and another IBM researcher is an important “core” member of the OpenSimulator team. You’ll see members of the OpenSimulator team at almost every weekly AWG meeting. Its not like people from Linden Lab and OPen Simulator aren’t collaborating on this project. · 23 Catten Carter Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:52 AM the realXtend guys have had teleports between SL and Opensim written on their homepage as an implemented function for a long time - I regret I did not test it my self, only via login/logout · 24 dandellion Kimban Says: July 8th, 2008 at 1:56 AM WOW! That is a nice announcement. Congratulations and best of luck with the project. · 25 Dave Bellman Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:02 AM Well done! Awesome stuff - brilliant news! Bring it on! · 26 Second Life Blog.it » IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability Announcement Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:07 AM [...] trovate la notizia della creazione del lab SL-IBM oggi, catturata al volo da [...] · 27 Saijanai Kuhn Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:08 AM Catten, no, this was a rewrite of both the Second Life server and the OpenSim server to allow a single login in one world and then a TP to the other world without logging out of the first one. RealXtend fakes it by logging out of Second LIfe and then logging into OpenSim. And realXtend’s method won’t allow sharing of ANY assets. Once the permissions system is implemented and tested (see messages 14 and 15 for links to the discussions about this), there is the possibility of sharing at least SOME assets with other worlds during teleport. I’m certain that realXtend will implement this method as soon as possible, however. · 28 Jonathen Snow Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:15 AM @22 Saijanai Kuhn: Oh Jee, I did not know that. Thank you for that information. But if the ones who decided to create a grid system besides the Linden grid are now slowly becoming a part of the Linden Dynasty, then I am afriad I have to give up my hopes that something good will come to the world, for now. Oh well, a new generation of real smart coders will rise and make this system really suitable for world usage. It will only take a little longer and I only hope that it will happen before the power of Linden is Microsoft sized. Because then it will really become hard. Still even then I will have hopes as even with the power of microsoft, Firefox is slowly winning after all. I just hope I live long enough to see it come to something really nice and not corporate forced upon the crowds like it is now. Just like the whole reason why the current 2D internet is great. Power to the majority of people instead of the companies with the most money. But maybe I just have a too twisted mind and is my frustration about Linden fuzzing my view too much. I think I better call my schrink · 29 Dilbert Dilweg Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:16 AM This is Excelent news!!! Yes! Way to go everyone involved!! · 30 Ryou Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:20 AM WOOOOW nice test and with succes. · 31 Dirk Talamasca Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:20 AM Hooray!! This is the kind of news I was hoping was hoping would be the focus of many of the SL5B events! · 32 Ener Hax Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:23 AM fantastic and scary! scary in that the future is unknown and the rules of today’s business isl will change. but exciting in that the future comes regardless of any one person’s anxiety. to open metaverses to each other will ultimately result in a wonderful collaboration and freedom for even greater opportunities just like the web has now. perhaps one day, the Lindens i earn isl will allow me to buy land and operate in an other metaverse. there is no doubt to IBM’s commitment to sl and this type of work is what keeps sl on the forefront, i would hardly agree that sl and Linden Labs will pass away into the history books and become less relevant. i would point to those that said the same of IBM when they did not think the personal PC would catch on. looks like IBM adapted and is doing pretty well. congrats to the passion of all those involved and bravo to a significant accomplishment · 33 Cotytto Bonetto Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:32 AM Oh Great! Now we can fly off into oblivion and get grey screened in a whole different virtual world. Did they test this on a Mac with a 2 wire router? Seriously…this is a very big step for virtual worlds. Congratulations gang! · 34 Larkum Woodget Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:32 AM My feelings about this are a little mixed. One develops a fierce, almost perverse loyalty to second life and the whole Linden thing… What will we all gripe about? Who will we blame? · 35 Gil Druart Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 AM Awesome. You’ve all done very well. Now make it work for real · 36 Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » Teleport to OpenSim from Second Life: Interoperability and the Decentralized Grid Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 AM [...] and Linden Lab have announced that they’ve accomplished interoperability between OpenSim and Second Life today, allowing [...] · 37 Tegg B Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:42 AM It’s a step I suppose, but not much point TP ing to another grid yet if you arrive pretty much bare butt naked and may not even have your name if someone else has it already on that grid. One day we will be able to walk/maybe even drive from one grid to another · 38 MazokNishi Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:51 AM Well done Linden. This is a big step toward your Survival. Well seeing the upcomming Mixi Deal in .jp the Open Grid getting Steam soon and the OGP getting necesserly for Linden. As Mixi will have a Mulitute of Registerd Accounts from the Beginning ( 20M Registerd Accounts currently as far as i Rember ) Keep up the Opening of the Grid, as faster as better Then we will see the 3th Generation of Web sooner then most of us thought · 39 Ryou Yiyuan Says: July 8th, 2008 at 2:58 AM For inventory why not work on an avatar key will be reconize in both world ? If an avatar use that same key in SL and OS why not inventory with not full right will be used in both ? · 40 Emondrell Raymaker Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:01 AM It’ll be really interesting if inter-world transfer starts up between more widely disparate metaverses than SL and OS. /me gets evil look on face… I can’t wait to see the WoW to EverQuest transfers Then again, those aren’t user-created worlds. Still, it’s very interesting to watch things moving in this direction. · 41 IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability « No where Now here Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:07 AM [...] Read the rest of the announcement on IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability [...] · 42 Fox Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:14 AM lmao. So when were you going to work on performance and stability of your current product again? · 43 Daten Thielt Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:44 AM Yea thanks linden lab for screwing up all the large group of private islands owners, its bad enough our islands are now worth so much less thatn what it is , and now there gona be worth nothing? so your still going to be telling people to buy islands with you and then the pore begggers find out that within a year an a half there islands will be worth nothing when all the large companies start populating the metaverse with there high end servers? you should quit whilst ur ahead. · 44 WiLLuMPJuH Footman Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:45 AM Great .. the company that invented the typewriter to process the Holocaust has a success in development with a company that is responsible for our digital lives… *shivers* OMFG … We are all going to di.. err.. be erased if history has a tendency to repeat itself ….. but at least it will all be documented, logged and stored … But seriously … this is a step back for the residents and a step forward to a corporation controlled digital future. You hated adfarms ? You just wait … /me feels very cold inside … (Yeah.. i really do not like IBM) · 45 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:49 AM So, as others have said this is really old news. Having said that…… Will the upcoming beta be open only to specific opensim-based grids, opensim in general or anyone willing to implement the standard? Some of us prefer our free metaverse without .NET · 46 Dekka Raymaker Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:50 AM I look forward to TPing to other opensims without problems in 5 years time. However, this is indeed an historic day, congratulations. · 47 Very Keynes Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:50 AM Well done, that was the sort of thing I was expecting Mitch Kapor to show in his keynote, but was rather hoping it would be announced as avalible rather then just a first test. Great Video Torley, I loved the StarTrek type ‘Matirialisation’ and the toung in cheek referance to the Apollo Program · 48 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:52 AM Daten - if you think that your island is an investment rather than a hosting service, then you’re mistaken. You may treat it as an investment, but LL sold you a hosting service, not real estate with guaranteed appreciation in value. · 49 StevenSDF Fisher Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:57 AM Cool news, lol cheesy video. It’d be nice if the attachments went over, I guess that may come in some time. SDF · 50 Daten Thielt Says: July 8th, 2008 at 3:58 AM Linden lab sold me hosting for my sims yes, BUT i do not pay for my own asset server, my own backup serrver , i spoke to zha and went thew the costs of hosting evey sever needed to get a grid runing, or i chose to take the option of finding some private grid that will just charge me like linden labs does? this is going to screw every land owner unless they are some one like anche chung who will pay out for an asset/backup asset/bandwith requierd/ ect the list goes on to make it cost effective and if you get the big companies in the future E.G AT&T, AOL, BT, IBM then there would be no point in owning an island · 51 Cappy Frantisek Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:00 AM Great now when SL™® goes blooey we can all tp to another world and make it go blooey also! Scalability! · 52 Lyn Mimistrobell Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:02 AM I can’t wait to have my own sim running on my own server, accessible for all residents. Congrats! · 53 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:06 AM You can run quite a few sims on a dedicated server that costs $100/month, how much do LL charge? And let’s not forget, nothing’s going to stop LL from still offering sim hosting, and they’ll likely end up lowering prices to be competitive eventually. · 54 Valradica Vale Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:09 AM It seems to me that if the code for all this is really open source, it won’t be hard for people to get around any IP restrictions that of necessity will be coded into the legitimate and well meaning code on all this. There has to be a way for any legitimate opensim to ban cmmerse (both ways) with a renegade hacker opensim that does not conform to the IP standards on both ends. Perhaps an OpenSim federation that has InterWorld laws that they all acknowledge. those not part of the federation and fully in line with the IP laws of the federation can do what ever they want, but will not be in commerce with the federation. This is an interesting issue - but Linden and IBM better get it right- There are a number of us who depend on this protection for part or all of our livelihood!!! · 55 Vylixan Fallon Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:10 AM hmm. sounds nice, but I don’t like it. Please never allow anything to move over from SL to an other platform. no assets no cash nothing. I am afraight for theft and fraude. Even SL is not completely safe, and if SL is connected to several other worlds that problem will multiply. But it sounds nice if SL was an utopia. · 56 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:11 AM The protection is server-side on the asset server. A rogue sim/grid will never get your stuff if you don’t set the right permissions to allow it. · 57 Pepper Haas Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:17 AM This IS really exciting and my congratulations to both IBM and Linden Labs for this accomplishment. Now just make sure that when my avi travels, her whole inventory gets to come along….. (g) · 58 Daten Thielt Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:17 AM its not as simple as just shoving sims on a dedicated server, you need a grid to put it on , so you will be paying that grid company to use their grid. then the inicial investment some of us have payed then we lost 40% because its droped to 1000, now we lose even more because linden labs try and compeet. all private island owners are being conned as we speak and untill some linden proves me wrong im gona scream about it · 59 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:22 AM I always find it amusing how people complained about the price increases for tier and islands, and now people are complaining about reduced prices. As for paying a grid provider, it depends on the provider. Some will charge you to link your own server. Some will manage the server for you and charge you per sim (like LL do). Some will let you link up your own server for free. Try OSGrid if you have your own hardware and want to experiment for example. There’s also various commercial providers popping up which I won’t name here as it’s inappropriate, but I invite you to go looking. · 60 Captain Noarlunga Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:25 AM Oh Great News……now how about fixing all the problems in Second Life with the resources you have available? Did you forget we are paying for a service here, not supporting your experimental fantasies! ??????????????????????????????????????????????? · 61 APinkSwan Beauchamp Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:35 AM While I agree this is a huge achievement for technology, I would still like to see some concerns addressed. If you think about it, won’t this make the in-world economy weaker? I realize that this game is unique in that at actually has a real life economy, but isn’t that the draw for sooo many here? We are able to pay for the use of the game through our businesses…be it clothing, scripts, land, etc. Won’t land businesses become obsolete? Heck, with the new items you get now for free and so many open source scripts, those types of businesses may no longer be needed too. This is the wave of the future, I know. This game appeared special because it was driven by the residents and I see it going very corporate… · 62 Dekka Raymaker Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:36 AM @ 60 Second Lfe is a experimental fantasy · 63 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:42 AM “his game appeared special because it was driven by the residents and I see it going very corporate… :(” 1 - not a game, how do you win exactly? 2 - it’s becoming LESS corporate - it’s becoming decentralised and more free and open · 64 Marlena Petrov Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:47 AM Once again the socially inept geeks and nerds come up with something that is oh sooo totally cool!! Like 99% of us care?? fix stability,and asset issues!! oh..but that does take some social responsibility…..something seemingly lacking from the folks @ LL. Its all about see what we can do now? …weeee !! NEW!! FLASHY!! SHINY!! Get real!! · 65 Daten Thielt Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:54 AM @63, stop being such a big head alot of people call sl a game,even tho is not. not alot of people who hae the servers setup for them by linden lab are going to know how to setup the server for use with a grid, and if you look carefully you will see people who wined were the ones who lost money, people who said yay were people who hadent spent any. · 66 Zena Juran Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:57 AM Maybe this will allow a user to run a standalone sim on their PC while maintaining connectivity to the SL grid? This indeed would be exciting! · 67 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 4:57 AM @65 Yes, a lot of people mistakenly call it a game, and it’s something trivial but irritating. Yes, a lot of people won’t know how to setup a server themselves, but those that don’t still have the option of paying LL or someone outside of LL and those that do now have the option of setting up their own server and eventually linking it up to SL. · 68 APinkSwan Beauchamp Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:06 AM @62 I do prefer the word platform over game, but some do consider it just a game, while others, like myself, conduct business here. To clarify my corporate statement…While open source is very good and does open things up for others, it is still the corporates who benefit….make the real money. Also, these are just my thoughts and opinions and I am still trying to get my head around it all. I do feel this is the wave of the future and virtual land and space will all become part of your ISP package. · 69 Elvis Orbit Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:10 AM Congrats on this collaboration and breakthrough. · 70 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:12 AM Of course right now it’s LL and a few big-shot residents who make the real money. Some residents make a net loss, some make a small profit, a few make enough of a profit to make it a full time job, and very few make enough to become actually rich. · 71 Maelstrom Janus Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:23 AM Very nice Im sure. But how about a few technical changes which might mean something to regular users of sl and give them more for their money… more prims per plot of ground maybe? an end to crashing during the move between sl regions let alone worlds ? Larger prims ? A wider variety of prim shapes ? The ability to bend and warp prims and cut holes in them wherever required ? The ability to put fonts onto builds and prims ? · 72 Csven Concord Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:24 AM While congratulations are in order for a technical achievement, I tend to agree with Ann (#4). I can see the clear benefit to corporations (and to Linden Lab; most of us remember Wells Fargo); I can see how the “free everything” crowd will be happy; but I also see the “top of the pyramid” opting for a virtual space which more vigorously addresses their IP concerns and actively protects the irrecoverable Time invested in creating content. Whether or not Second Life is that virtual space seems to be the $64,000 question. · 73 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:32 AM @71 You do realise LL are not abandoning other development, right? · 74 WiLLuMPJuH Footman Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:34 AM Just considering … how many and whose grid will be allowed transfers and connections to the real life financial networks and data of the maingrid of Second Life ? And what if governments purchase gridsystems of IBM and want to connect to Second Life ? What if the Linden economy and your local reallife ID will be required to participate in it all ? What if you can only connect to your digital identity with conformed I(nternet) P(rotocol) - address through a governed-by your-local-authorities-only-grid and THEN connect to Second Life ? How else would IP rights be controlled ? :O Seems more than like just a ‘game under construction’ … · 75 IBM and Linden Lab take the next big step for (virtual) mankind : The Metaverse Journal - Australia’s Virtual World News Service Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:40 AM [...] As announced on the Linden Lab blog today, IBM and Linden Lab have successfully teleported avatars from the Second Life preview grid to an OpenSim virtual world. [...] · 76 Robert Rice Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:40 AM Uh, this is pretty much non-news isn’t it? Transferring an avatar from one virtual world to the next isn’t much more than simply exporting the mesh and textures from one and importing it into another. I fail to see why this is exciting, historic, or press worthy. While interoperability sounds like a great idea on paper, there are still a lot of issues to be worked out, particularly in the realms of security, IP protection, commerce, and so forth. Making everything wide open and knocking down all the walled gardens is short sighted and ultimately disadvantageous for the industry at large, at least until these issues are solved. One last note: Second Life is not a game! · 77 Maelstrom Janus Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:49 AM @73 maybe not but introducing a few changes which would actually benefit (and be of visible benefit) to people who come to sl to build, to create and explore would be nice… I crashed crossed sim boundaries when I joined 12 months ago I still do if I want to put a window in a wall I still have to use umpteen prims, if I want to put fonts on a build I still have to import, the number of prims per plot hasnt changed either. · 78 Maelstrom Janus Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:51 AM and I wonder if when I eventually make the jaunt to brave new virtual worlds Im going to be ringed by glowing red ban lines which deny me the right to explore or even move as they often do in sl….. · 79 Sedary Raymaker Says: July 8th, 2008 at 5:55 AM @4: Perhaps you need to learn about software engineering An amusing thing to say immediately after showing your ignorance of the concept of “unit testing”. @76: I fail to see why this is exciting, historic, or press worthy. That’s okay. Leave that to the people who actually have some idea of what it takes to do backport such interoperability into a complex existing system · 80 Maelstrom Janus Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:04 AM @79 perhaps the person who wrote comment 76 like me would actually like to see a few changes which benefit and improve sl for its less technocratic - users rather than being something for elitist technophiles like your self to rub your hands together over.. · 81 shibaritwine Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:07 AM Isn’t this old news and the work of Zha, not IBM? Or are you trying to bury Mitch’s ridiculous and insulting keynote quickly with fluff. Look at yourselves closely Linden Lab, you are going from worse to a laughing stock. · 82 Ina Centaur Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:09 AM Wow - does this mean anything - and has the *actual* av transferred to the open grid? I mean this isn’t physical RL teleport as in sci fi, where the entire person (thoughts, body shape etc) is transferred. This is transferring an avatar, a visual representation based on a bunch of pixels. If your appearance isn’t transferred, is this actually transferring the same avatar? (But in other news… um transferring the same “name” - well I guess it is a small step towards ID.) · 83 Gareth Nelson Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:12 AM Of course, some of us had grid interop implemented way before Zha’s experiment: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gwengareth/2518519577/ http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Gareth_Ellison/Supergrid http://www.litesim.com/blog/19 I often log into SL and other grids using one standard viewer (without reconfiguring it!) on a regular basis just by changing the start location · 84 Kara Spengler Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:21 AM We are thinking of SL as a monolithic set of servers …. in reality there are sims, asset servers, and so on. What if anyone could host a grid … but to be connected to the network of grids SL is on they need to use LL’s database? Then LL charges them for that use of course. For the asset servers we could have read of objects by any grid. Write would only be allowed by the originating one though. When I say ‘read’ I mean in such a way as we assume a cracked server, absolutely no way of bypassing no copy/no transfer/no modify. There may be a few more details of the permissions system I have forgotten (hey, it is pre-caffeine), but that approach should be a good first step. One debate is whether or not content creators should or should not be able to restrict their creations to one grid or another. This issue is a thorny one, what do we do about content whose creators have left SL? Some may want it one way and others another, but who can say which ones would say what? · 85 Maelstrom Janus Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:21 AM The question is if I jump into IBMS ‘world’ will I be expected to pay for being there or is the hope that I will become another premium member… isn’t there a risk that people might start exploring and fnd they prefer other virtual worlds and jump ship ? Or are Lindens hoping IBM might ‘buy em out’…. · 86 MarkByron Falta Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:31 AM It’s suppose to be a historic day when we can teleport to other grids while getting ruthed and losing inventory? One can already get ruthed, borked, buried, or lose inventory just from crossing into the next region. What will be the next epic announcement? · 87 Robert Rice Says: July 8th, 2008 at 6:33 AM @79 “That's okay. Leave that to the people who actually have some idea of what it takes to do backport such interoperability into a complex existing system” Cute. It isn’t my fault that SL is a complex existing system. I’ve always been of the opinion that SL could have been designed and architected much better from the start. That aside, I could care less how easy or difficult this avatar transfer process was, my point is that I don’t see why it is news worthy or a big deal. SL has consistently been marketed as new and innovative for years, even as it has rehashed old technology and ideas, as well as failed to keep pace with the MMO sector (also virtual worlds). This seems like more of the same…a good way for more press and making it seem that SL is much more advanced and trailblazing than it really is. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a press release where SL announces some new and innovative feature like letting users create their own names instead of choosing stupid precanned ones from a list. That’s press worthy too, right? Of course, that must be really difficult to do with such a complex system. Anyway, as I said, interoperability is a good idea on paper, but the implementation that people are rushing towards willy-nilly isn’t well thought out, and is definitely half-baked. One last thing, who was doing the goofy voice on the video? It sounded like a poor imitation of Emo Phillips after a few too many tequila shots. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

What’s new in Second Life 1.20! - Video Tip of the Week #43

86 Responses to “What’s new in Second Life 1.20! - Video Tip of the Week#43” · 1 R. H. Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:14 AM Too bad the wiki STILL doesn’t load or I’d read Ramzi’s page. wiki.secondlife.com doesn’t load since Mar ‘08, why do folks refer to it? Won’t load in Firefox, won’t load in IE, is fairly illegible in lynx or other text based browsers. · 2 Wanja Lubitsch Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:24 AM R.H. it’s working fine for me. Never had any problems with it. I use firefox 3.01, but I’m sure it also works for firefox 2. Any firewall or web-blocker at your site? I know some anti-virus software (e.g. avast) can also block specific websites. Check the proxy-settings in your network set-up (seperated for firefox and IE) Try “ping wiki.secondlife.com” or (on windows) “tracert wiki.secondlife.com”. On topic: 1.20 is for me the best official viewer. Shouldn’t always the newest be the best? It still has some drawbacks… from time to time it freezes my system for about 1 minute, while former viewers had crashed after that, this one continues as if nothing happened. I wish I could track down the cause for freezing. · 3 Lesheran Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:41 AM I tried 1.20, but after my system hard locking 9 times in a few hours i went back to 1.19 · 4 Firebird Nightfire Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:58 AM 1.20 ROCKS! B) I can now stay online for hours before I need to relog! I actually got through an advanced build class without crashing! Only one problem: I now have to actually go afk to potty and get food and drink. · 5 Esch Snoats Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:12 AM Ever since this patch I’ve had graphic problems left and right with lines showing up and random textures appearing in the sky. Never had an issue till now. Fun. · 6 Opensource Obscure Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:34 AM R.H.: http://wiki.secondlife.com works well on Firefox, Epiphany and Links2 here. You may want to check your personal settings and/or change the Mediawiki skin in your wiki settings. It also could be an issue with HTTPS (maybe you’re firewalled?) - try the cached version by nyud.net (note the different domain): http://wiki.secondlife.com.nyud.net/wiki/10_Things_You_Want_to_Know_in_Your_new_1.20_Viewer · 7 Ron Crimson Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:43 AM Torley, my man… you really need to cut down on the Prozac, it’s not good for you in the long term ;-))) Just kidding Awesome video as usual, you rawk! Keep up the great work and give my hugs to the team responsible for the 1.23 rollout ^_^ · 8 linnie Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:57 AM @4 Firebird a few hours lol, i can stay online as long as 15 hours without a relog… and yes i use 1.19.1 (4) and will not upgrade unless i’m forced to do so · 9 Dedric Mauriac Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:01 AM Hooray! Clicking names for profiles is awesomeness. You wouldn’t believe how much time this saves me. I used to copy those names, search, open profile, start IM. This takes a lot of steps out of it. · 10 Latif Khalifa Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:20 AM While agree that 1.20 is a nice release indeed, but its amazing to watch Torley spin some clear UI blunders as a good thing. For example hiding tools menu is universally hated and the request for its reversal PJIRA is on the fast track to becoming the one with most votes. Removing Fly button from the movement controls, disabling fly button when sitting, disabling one click sit when sitting on another prim are some more examples of dumbing down the viewer (no matter how hard Torely tries to spin these as “improvements”). I just hope that this is not a beginging of the trend that will greatly improve 1st hour experience in SL, but make the rest of it much less productive and dumbed down. · 11 Ann Otoole Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:21 AM getting weirdness in edit linked. like moving one linked prim drags a bunch, phantoms, been destroying assemblies all night, buggged. Oh and when someone start typing in an IM and the “so and so is typing” message goes active it tries to steal focus and causes loss of edit linked mode. And the “typing” message focus has also finally correlated to the awful problem with big groups ignoring the do not receive notices flag. Guess i’ll be entering pjira text. And it is crashing constantly now. The RC is not crashing like this. How do you get a bugged version into production from a stable RC unless you touched the code? naughty naughty. The exact same code base from the RC was supposed to go live. Not some last second jacked up code. · 12 Argent Stonecutter Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:26 AM If you’ve been using the fly button to restore the camera while sitting, you can use shift-left or shift-right to get the same effect (as I noted in the JIRA). · 13 Fernando Dagostino Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:44 AM Most things sound like a good improvement, especially it seems like are not appearing disformed (ruthed) anymore. The way the video is made and especially spoken kind of reminds me of american tell sell tv. lol. It does keep the focus there though. HOWEVER, I really think SPOTLIGH Tis not the direction Linden Lab should go to. It means A GROUP OF ELITES, the ones managing spotlight, are the ones in control of OUR ECONOMY. They benefit the ones showed in spotlight and disadvantage the others that are not. To me this seems VERY unfair. Linden Lab should NOT interfere with OUR economy. At least not INSIDE the world of second life. It’s kind of like Obama or Bush saying:”Buy a Sony Tv. Sony is good, here is a good location to buy SONY TV’s, while not mentioning other brands. A very bad idea… · 14 Indeterminate Schism Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:47 AM 1.20 hasn’t crashed or frozen once for me since I installed it an hour after it was announced on the blog. The 1.20 Welcome Page is wonderful and an absolutely fantastic idea. ‘Silver’ was pretty but was killing my eyes so I’ve gone back to ‘default’. @10 I thought I’d hate all that (especially Tools) but it is there when I need it. Still getting used to all the other changes, but I love it so far. · 15 Silky Bulloch Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:49 AM Well - I have a couple issues with this new viewer - that TAP TAP is a bothersome troublemaker - shear crazyness adding to the problems - also are there a bunch of left handed Lindens or what - why move the fly button way over to the left side of the screen - very unhandy over there for something thats in constant use……… · 16 Fernando Dagostino Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:00 AM as follow up on my previous post, i would like to add that I would not mind only to have places in SPOTLIGHT which are NON COMMERCIAL. Also I know locations in spotlight will rotate to an extend, but I’m pretty sure it will show those same old brands we already get shoved down our throat everywhere (in classifieds and such). Just check out spotlight, and you will see what i mean. · 17 Soap Clawtooth Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:06 AM Yeah. This blog is probably not the best blog to complain about the ‘unfixed’ stuff guys. Torley is Resident Education; he’s not anything to do with bug fixing, The Wednesday office hours Andrew Linden on Tuesdays @ 11:00-12:00 and Thursdays @ 17:00-18:00 (Region: Content to Hover) or Bridie Linden’s Office Hours on Wednesdays @ 3:00-4:00 PM SLT at BridieLinden’s house in LindenVillage. oh and btw: The showcase thing was originally MY IDEA! \o/ · 18 Soap Clawtooth Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:07 AM @17 - you numpty - you forget to mention that Wednesdays office hours are for Release Canidate discussion and critical issues effecting the second life experience of Residents and that the Tuesday and Thursday office hours are to discuss technical issues. *whacks you with rolled up newspaper* · 19 Honcho HullaBaloo Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:23 AM New stuff is fine. But what is best needed is to FIX PRESENT STUFF. Suggestion: the trasparency over transparance effect. There has to be a way to fix this so that trasparencies stack on each other instead of turning them invisible. Making SL more user friendly: scripting, texturing, building… I’m not saying dumb it down to grade level educations, but I swear, some of the support material needs support material to decipher. You know… stuff like this? · 20 Rooke Ayres Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:31 AM I’ve been using 1.20 from the beginning. I think this viewer is even better than the Nicholaz viewer. It uses way less memory, way less CPU and crashes way less Way to go LL! · 21 Takafumi Farina Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:47 AM It is in Linden Lab’s best interest to improve the retention rate of new registered users. This means making the interface easier and more simple. I don’t think it’s going to kill you guys to unhide the Tools menu. · 22 Solace Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:50 AM I love the fact that SL is taking steps towards a better input style - here’s my take on what is missing running…. hmmm…. we have wsad as movement so why not hold shift to run… maybe even space to jump? this would be very easy to use i know it is because almost all 3d simulations that use wsad have these features. key binding anyone? my joystick has 10 buttons that do nothing and the default assignments make it so i have to put the joystick down to do any thing meaningful (like touch an object) here’s a neat idea… when clicking and holding on your avatar you get this really awesome 3rd person mouse look… maybe the right mouse could be walk forward during that mode? one handed navigation yes · 23 Denver Hax Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:50 AM Well I had a look, but i reverted to the earlier viewer, because I hate the search on it, it is not a good layout. The old search you got a list you could scroll through and find what you needed - this one you have to click through pages and endure adverts you neither asked for nor want. please tell me this isn’t going in any future mandatory viewers. At least give us the option to use classic search format in any further releases. · 24 SecondSolutions Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:51 AM Great introductory video Torley This new viewer is a great update, I’ve been following 1.20 since the RC, well actually since I’ve been in SL… hehe. Well there are lots of more cool features implemented in this viewer, like the full windlight support, and the new skin is a great enhancement. I’m now looking towards to the Mono support in the client in 1.21?… I think I read that somewhere Anyway it’s awesome release with lots of fixes and enhancements, and I think all Second Life users will enjoy it. Good work LindenLab! - Greetings the SecondSolutions team http://secondsolutions.wordpress.com · 25 Phantom Ninetails Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:00 PM So you released it without fixing the problem that cripples beacons, eh? · 26 DR Dahlgren Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:06 PM Well, I took your advice Torley and downloaded this viewer. I am quite dissappointed in truth. The TOOLS button is now missing even though many have expressed a desire to leave it on the toolbar. It enabled stop / run / reset scripts without going into edit, etc. Now I have extra steps for those functions. Beacons seem to be borked up, which as a land owner I use. Guess I will have to either revert to 1.19 or see if I can edit code to put the tool button back. And I thought LL was finally listening… oh well. DRD · 27 Lesheran Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:08 PM Takafumi: You are right hiding the tools menu won’t kill me. It’s kind of neat… at least the idea of it is. It was throwing me off when I’d go to the advanced or help menus. So adding a toggle to leave it there for the large installed base that do mind would be a good idea. A number of the “improvements” in 1.20 I found annoying as well, such as the stats bar being a floating window wit ha scroll bar that shows up in it now. So I’ll be sticking with 1.19 and checking out the alt viewers. · 28 DaBull Hansup Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:17 PM Why is that everytime I download a new version of SL lately, the camera controls…when you cam over and look down on yourself, or a project….then u try and go east, west, north or south, and it goes haywire, spinning, instead of the nice steady straight line? I am a builder, and this drives me nuts. · 29 Geneko Nemeth Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:18 PM Geneko’s Default joystick setting for dual-analog game controllers: X:2 Y:5 Z:1 P:-1 Y:0 R:-1 Zoom:-1 or Left walks/turns, Right strafes/flies (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Geneko_Nemeth for more elaboration) · 30 Tulip Farella Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:23 PM I like this 1.20. The only thing that needs to be changed is the colour of the IM tab, as its white, its hard to see whats a new Im, and i have to scroll through all of them seeing which have new additions. It did use to be a differant colour, and that changed a few versions ago, just needs to be changed back. Making the tab blue for new,would be nice,and fit with the colour scheme. Other than that, perfect. · 31 cutekid2 twine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:33 PM Second Life Installer download no longer works i run Test Viewers Release Candidate Viewers i run 1.20v no server for me log on to so i run Release Candidate Viewers or not run sl it need b fix · 32 cutekid2 twine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:39 PM add good tip run Release Candidate Viewers new viewer no point run old 1.24v cooler add yes port on my bug 60days a go · 33 Star Beebe Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:41 PM RE:1.19 VERSION I NEED TO DOWNLOAD PREVIOUS VERSION REASON RLV ONLY SUPPORTS 1.19 NOT 1.20 ANYONE KNOW WHERE I MIGHT GET IT PLEASE THANKS · 34 Phantom Ninetails Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:45 PM You can get the old 1.19.0.5 here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-secondlife-com/Second_Life_1-19-0-5_Setup.exe And 1.19.1.4 here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-secondlife-com/Second_Life_1-19-1-4_Setup.exe · 35 isaque Says: July 26th, 2008 at 12:52 PM oiof dfdshfyshhhhj · 36 Yanik Lytton Says: July 26th, 2008 at 1:04 PM Thanks for the video Torley. Really appreciated! Sad thing, I never crashed this much since the last update. · 37 Qiana Tuqiri Says: July 26th, 2008 at 1:11 PM Installed 1.20 and my graphics quality went right out the window! Everything is blurred and detail is gone. It’s crappy now, quite frankly. I’m not a happy camper. Their solution to me, after I told them I tried adjusting adjusting my graphics settings was….adjust my graphics settings. Gee, wish I’d thought of that….thanks for nothing, guys! Even with putting every setting at its highest quality, nothing changes. Oddly, no matter what changes I make, the graphics all stay just the same, no better, no worse….that’s not right. I’ve also found much more lag everywhere I go that wasn’t there in just the 15 minutes before I “upgraded” (some upgrade). So, that must be related to it, too. Another person said the same thing….just before he crashed…and then, I crashed! · 38 Slartibartfast Magicthise Says: July 26th, 2008 at 1:37 PM I found a reproducible bug; 1. Launch SL 2. Crash SL is the only program that has ever taken down my entire OS, and does it on an annoyingly consistent basis - no reason at all. I’ve never had to force-reboot my machine 20 times a day. Sometimes on launch, sometimes during the progress bar, sometimes when I move or turn, sometimes when I’m not doing anything but staring out at the sea horizon. How can you diagnose something like that? · 39 Honcho HullaBaloo Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:18 PM Great… Now the camera controls respond like a drunk wh… escort. That just makes being a photographer on SL even harder. How the hell can you pan in for the proper show when camera view flops all over the place. WAY TO GO, NIMRODS! · 40 Honcho HullaBaloo Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:22 PM Wait… turning off camera smoothing fixes it (sure… lets set the defalt to something usless and let them figure out how to fix it. It’s a learning experience!) · 41 jz paine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:24 PM Wonders why so many folks have such a dislike for LL. God, b*t*ch, bi*c*, get a life, or better buy a computer that works, get a better video card, find a better ISP. I have been in SL since 2004 and have never seen boards like this do nothing but complain. Get a life.. better yet go back to 1st life and let the rest of us enjoy Second Life. By the way, nice video, as usual Tory. You Rock! · 42 Cocoanut Koala Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:40 PM I see the Showcase has been rammed into the viewer, and includes for-profit shops, despite a number of us arguing at meetings that it should not. The Showcase is a special tab where the Lindens funnel people to places of interest, which unfortunately include their own picks of who should get the (mostly hair and fashion) business. This is grossly unfair to other hair and fashion businesses, and also undermines the Classifieds. The few and weak reasons given for why these stores “have to” be included in the Showcase simply don’t hold water. How anyone can take SL seriously as a reasonably place of commerce when the game gods insist on pimping their own choices of stores is entirely beyond me. (And calling the process “editorial” doesn’t sanitize it at all; sorry.( I’d also like to note that I am still unable to scroll through either the new (and benighted) Search All tab, OR the Showcase tab, despite running SL in windowed mode as was suggested to me when I submitted a support ticket about it. I can see only the first few entries. LL is aware that this is an issue for a number of people. Why does LL insist on putting new systems in, and keeping them in, which clearly DO NOT WORK for a number of people? (Or even harm people directly and unfairly, like the automated banning system.) Don’t you expect your things to work? Why don’t you make sure things at least work before you force them on us? And when I say “force them on us,” I mean precisely that. coco · 43 aldina roux Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:48 PM I have one irritating problem since the latest update. I see multicolour vertical pole at avatars 30-50m from me. The poles seems they are somehow like colours derived from the avatars. the pole moves when the avatar moves. it disappears when I get near them. I have friends who have this problem too. I hope this can be fixed. · 44 Arella Springvale Says: July 26th, 2008 at 2:56 PM I want my fly button back! (the one on the movement controls) · 45 Slartibartfast Magicthise Says: July 26th, 2008 at 3:00 PM Who is the captain of the failboat that decided that hiding the TOOLS menu counts as “uncluttering” the UI? If you REALLY want to unclutter things - look to the bar of buttons at the bottom. Why can’t we pick and choose what buttons appear down there? Look at “Apple User Interface Guidelines” for tips on how to make your UI more user-friendly and uncomplicated. If your UI developers aren’t aware of AUIG they’re not doing the basic research essential to their work. You know who uses incidental hiding of menus? BLENDER, that’s who - one of the very worst examples of UI torture ever devised (no matter how often they say “once you get used to it you’ll wish all programs worked like this” BS - once I got used to it I wished their developers would be frog-marched to Guantanamo for torturing innocent civilians). · 46 matika Wombat Says: July 26th, 2008 at 3:04 PM I seen some nice features in the new viewer. The only thing that I find anoying, is the springiness the camera controls have. Does not help my vertigo issues and limits the work I can do because of it. I am sure it has been reported in the issue tracker, which by the way, I can never figure out how to use, there should be just an easier way to navitage through it for us rookies, or an explanation on how to use it. Perhaps it is and I just need to climb from under the rock I been hidding under. · 47 Rita Munro Says: July 26th, 2008 at 3:44 PM What shall I say: My first crash was before I even saw the log-in bar. *pouf* SL dissappeard from my screen. Stop creating “new features” please! Use the time better to do away with the ShowStopper bugs reported to Jira for so many months. Rita · 48 Tegg B Says: July 26th, 2008 at 4:00 PM Cool Vid Torley, I like the couble tap run feature. Hopefully we will get run to work somehow with SN so we can ramp up speed. Also The lipsynch is creat I hope it can be set to work with local chat soon too for those of us who only use voice sometimes. · 49 Freddy Ferrentino Says: July 26th, 2008 at 4:12 PM Why am I crashing all the time in 1.20.15? It seems as soon as another Avitar comes into the screen i get a display driver error that immediatley corrects itself but it’s too late. I have crashed. Help!!! HP Pavillion with geforce 8500 graphic card. · 50 Sephy McCaw Says: July 26th, 2008 at 4:17 PM man, you people need to quit complaining…. and you also need to find out what “optional download” means… if you DONT like it rever back to b 1.19.4….. quit complaing and do something else to fix it… sheesh…. great work on the vids btw torely…. watch them everytime you bbring a new one out · 51 domineaux prospero Says: July 26th, 2008 at 4:29 PM I may be daft but why hide the tools menu but leave that annoying release keys button there above the toolbar floating by itself? The tools menu is not and was not in the way of anything. That release keys button sure is. Maybe I missed something and there is a simple way to get rid of the release keys button. I’m pretty sure the release keys button isn’t used much. That begs the question, why is it still there? Can it not be placed in the toolbar or perhaps put into the tool menu? Why is it such an important function that it requires its own little area? By the way 3 cheers for this from the grid status page Do you think you may have missing inventory? Posted by admin on July 24th, 2008 at 10:36 am PDT We have just completed a project that recovered a large set of missing inventory items. You can check your Inventory “Lost & Found” folder for possible returned items. The best way to see whether any of your things have been recovered is to clear your Second Life Viewer cache, restart your Second Life Viewer, log back inworld and then check your Inventory. Any recovered items will be located in their owner's “Lost & Found” folder. These particular recovered items were not showing up in Residents' inventories because they did not have a parent folder. Please note that items lost for other reasons would not be affected by this project. Generally, if you suspect an inventory loss problem, the first thing to do is clear your cache and relog. For more information see the Wiki Inventory page. We are working on a patch that will put any items that become lost in future because of a missing parent folder problem into the “Lost & Found” folder automatically upon relogging. [Resolved] LindeX Website Problems with IE I finally got my huddles back that was loaded with no copy dances and animations that was lost for months due to ……..wait for it…….. clicking release keys by accident! · 52 Liliannah Triellis Says: July 26th, 2008 at 4:33 PM I was sitting here thinking eh…dont want to update…then i watched this and *click* im updating im so excited!!! · 53 Firebird Nightfire Says: July 26th, 2008 at 5:06 PM I really love that being Ruthed no longer leaves you looking like my Aunt Ruth (no matter how much I love her, I just don’t want her face on my avatar!), but instead a mystical will-o-whisp. When is customizable skinning coming out? I’m looking forward to putting my own personal touch on the viewer. · 54 Jago Constantine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 5:14 PM #49 “i get a display driver error that immediatley corrects itself but it's too late. I have crashed. Help!!! HP Pavillion with geforce 8500 graphic card” I’ve had this twice as well. Running an 8800. · 55 Bellini Cazalet Says: July 26th, 2008 at 5:29 PM Awesome tutorial, Torley! Thank you for all that you do to make our (newbie & seasoned citizens alike) SL more enjoyable. *smile* · 56 Me Says: July 26th, 2008 at 6:03 PM While the new viewer seems to use a lot less memory which is great I must say that I will go back to 1.19 - mainly because I still hate the New All search even though I really tried to like it, it takes so much longer to find whatever one is looking for - could we please have the old search back so everyone can decide which one they want to use? And I agree with what has been said a lot of times before - showcase entries should be all non-commercial by all means. Having had a look at showcase I think I will cancel all but one cheap 50ls classified, I think picking a coulple of stores out of the thousands of stores is nothing but unfair to the rest of all content creators. Nothing wrong at all with no-commercial listings, but this goes too far for my own liking… · 57 IshtarAngel Micheline Says: July 26th, 2008 at 6:15 PM When will linden lab finally fix the C++ runtime error in windows. I have been struck with this in the release canadate. I run Nvdia which had no problem until this batch of RC. I have run the new version of the Primary client and am being struck with this error once again. Can anyone help · 58 SL Player™ Says: July 26th, 2008 at 6:21 PM Another good one · 59 R. H. Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:07 PM @OpenSource Obscure Thank You! Takes a while to load that mirror BUT IT LOADS (really big *shiny effervescent* grin) 2 other responders, first thing I checked into was false positives in the router, firewall mistakes, etc etc network issues….btw also can’t reach microsoft.com should probably get off my lazy arse and look to ISP support, this is getting out of hand not being able to reach large presence sites tnx for the feedback PS: any similar mirror for jira? can’t reach either,, obviously can’t log in from a mirror but @ least I could follow some issues on a mirror · 60 Madds Choche Says: July 26th, 2008 at 8:42 PM I like alot of the features implemented but I still have ONE HUGE GRIPE about the new viewer…. WHAT IS WITH THE CAMERA!!! now it flies all over the screen and is barely in my control anymore. This is not a hardware issue of mine so please don’t tell me that it’s not the viewer. The camera is more of a cinematic kind than actually functional. In a laggy area I have to wait 1 minute or longer sometimes before the camera settles down. I want to revert, but i can not find where to get 1.19 again. alas I shall be stuck forevermore. · 61 DhouZhang Fhang Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:06 PM I had two crashes within half an hour of running the new client, so i logged in with the Release Candidate and guess what? was able to stay on for nearly two hours. Guess those servers still haven’t been upgraded to match the client upgrade. · 62 Urantia Jewell Says: July 26th, 2008 at 9:10 PM @60 Madds Choche, The camera controls are adjustable in Preferences. Adjust camera smoothing lower or off completely to resolve your issue. Hope this helps · 63 DR Dahlgren Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:23 PM OMG Torley - They may have fixed something, but they sure seemed to have borked up a lot else. On top of the tool bar issue and beacons, my camera vibrates all over the place when ever I move it using controls, sit doesn’t work unless you are right nex to the object and nothing is inbetween you and the target, I seem to tp to the ground all the time, even if that happens to be under something like a road. Sorry, this viewer is not even ready for prime time. Back to 1.19.4 for me. And I am afraid it may a be a bit before I take your advice again Torley. Your video is fine, but the recommendation to use this viewer was bad. DRD · 64 DR Dahlgren Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:25 PM Recommendation folks, when you download a viewer, select SAVE after you click the link, and save it to your hard drive, then install. That way you always have a copy in case the next release sucks like this one does. You can uninstall and revert back to the prev release since you still have the files. DRD · 65 cutekid2 twine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:41 PM Second Life Release Candidate Viewer 1.23.3 works for me Second Life 1.19 and 1.20 do not work for me i do not crash Second Life Release Candidate Viewer 1.23.3 i run game ultra+ draw distance 512m · 66 cutekid2 twine Says: July 26th, 2008 at 10:42 PM and my leg super low in i load 8sims · 67 Alvi Halderman Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:06 PM WOW! i FEEEEEEEL THAT SECONDLIFE IS GOING A LOT BETTER…!!! OMG….. · 68 Phantom Ninetails Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:30 PM You can get the old 1.19.0.5 here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-secondlife-com/Second_Life_1-19-0-5_Setup.exe And 1.19.1.4 here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/download-secondlife-com/Second_Life_1-19-1-4_Setup.exe (You know, I said this before, but people are still saying they can’t find it, so..) · 69 Ron Crimson Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:31 PM cutekid2: There is no 1.23.3 viewer. And if you’re not running 1.20 OR 1.19, then what ARE you running? o_O BTW, it amazes me how people can watch this wideo and STILL completely miss the new camera settings… I can’t believe how many complaints there have been about them - sorry, guys, but are you really that clueless that you can’t figure out a simple new feature like that even after it’s been shown to you? I don’t get it. o_O · 70 Ryou Yiyuan Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:34 PM I like that version. At beginning can be disturbing. Funny sword Torley. · 71 Angsty Rossini Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:37 PM Torley, Thanks for the interesting video, but after 2 days of using 1.20 I am returning to 1.19. WHY? I cannot abide the loss of the Tools menu from my viewer. As a builder, this change is unwelcome, unwanted and frankly, causes more problems that it solves. I don’t understand WHY building had to be made more complicated that it needs to be for SL content creators. I don’t want to deal with workarounds and added complexity when building! As a teacher of building classes for beginners, let me reassure you that the presence of the Tools menu has NEVER been a cause of problems or confusion for new builders in any of my classes. Not ONCE!! In fact, it was the most obvious place to explore to find the tool they wanted. Now, they are going to be lost and confused again. I’d rather suffer freezes and the odd crash with Viewer 1.19 if it means I get my Tools menu back! Angsty · 72 Charlene Siemens Says: July 26th, 2008 at 11:47 PM I like the lip-sync feature. It makes you look like you’re in a badly dubbed movie · 73 Masuyo Aabye Says: July 27th, 2008 at 12:09 AM the lip sync is funny when people are stupid enough to still think they’re cool to play music through voice. it makes them look a lot more stupid than before (if thats possible) · 74 Jonathan Snow Says: July 27th, 2008 at 12:36 AM And again Linden goes on with adding voice features while I never see any people using voice. Changable user-interface? How can I get my friendsbutton back, how can I make the too large windows smaller? But the biggest thing: WHO ON EARTH ASKED LINDEN TO TAKE ‘TOOLS’ OUT OF THE MENU ??????? It is clear with everything Linden does, that, although they say they are listening to the residents, they just go their own way and we just have to accept and pay or leave. I stick to the Nicholaz viewers as that guy at least listened to what we,the residents, wanted. · 75 Nad Gough Says: July 27th, 2008 at 2:35 AM I’d like to offer some verbagé for the team’s big news. “Thank you all for providing feedback for the RC leading up to a release where suddenly we just go ahead and do what we think would be neat because we know better than you what you need. We knew that this viewer was ready to go live, because your expressions that it needs more work are simply the opinions of ‘users’! We hope you enjoy the new surprises, we even fixed stuff that wasn’t in need of fixins! And as always, we appreciate your patience.” · 76 Lisa Lowe Says: July 27th, 2008 at 2:39 AM And another awesome educational video. Keep them coming Torley. You rock! · 77 Soap Clawtooth Says: July 27th, 2008 at 4:02 AM @74 I use voice all the time. As do my friends. · 78 Tegg B Says: July 27th, 2008 at 4:33 AM Jonathan Snow Says: “And again Linden goes on with adding voice features while I never see any people using voice. Changable user-interface? How can I get my friendsbutton back, how can I make the too large windows smaller? But the biggest thing: WHO ON EARTH ASKED LINDEN TO TAKE ‘TOOLS' OUT OF THE MENU ???????” Well if you don’t have voice turned on, you won’t know people are using voice around you. I can agree with the craziness of tools tab dissapearing, so here’s my fix, adding Link/Unlink to the pie menu whilst editing. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8364 · 79 ticious trottier Says: July 27th, 2008 at 4:38 AM About the showcase, I’ve been running completely non-profit (no mall) music venues and presenting upwards of 20 hours of live music for 19 months. The Hummingbird Cafe is the home of the longest continuously running open mic in Second Life (over 2 years, maybe pushing 3 years) but anyone looking at the showcase is gonna think there’s less than a dozen venues in Second Life and they’re going to tp to them to find a mall or an empty parcel. Yet, Rocky Shores, the Hummingbird Cafe and most of the other long running, well established, not for profit venues are NOT included in the Showcase and I for one never saw a call to submit my venue. I did submit my venue for the Venue List that was called for several months ago, I do see Lindens on my venue and at the Hummingbird (there are a couple semi-reg Lindens at the Hummingbird). What is the criteria for inclusion? · 80 Maximilian March Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:11 AM Easily one of the best releases yet and one of the most exciting VidTut’s from you Torley. Thanks for amplifying our awesome. You continue to rock and I know I’m not alone when I say I’m really glad we’ve got you around.^^ Thank you thank you thank you Linden Lab for making world and viewer stability a priority! ~Max~ · 81 Gabrielle Petronius Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:13 AM I’ve had nothing but poor performance since going to 1.20. I want a link to get the old 1.19 back! I’m lucky if I get over 10fps on a good day since upgrading to 1.20. Nice to see LL -STILL- can’t get their act together. · 82 Gabrielle Petronius Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:16 AM If ANYONE can provide me with a link to the 1.19 viewer, I would be MUCH abliged. I’ve used 1.20 and it sucks. I was quite content with 1.19. Next time I will wait a while before I upgrade. · 83 Ener Hax Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:24 AM seems to work very well for me. thank you LL for continuing to improve it all. and Torley! what a long video, lol, packed with good info, I always learn new stuff from all of your videos. i can’t imagine where i would be in sl if i did not have all the tips, tricks, and general knowledge from your videos. thank you · 84 Georgette Whitfield Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:38 AM Willo-the-wisp in SL?! Cool! I love Kenneth Williams. BTW lip synch is hilarious in my viewer due to my noisy pc. Looks like I’m talking when I’m not so gives an interesting ‘goldfish’ look. Ahahaha. · 85 Blackie Dagger Says: July 27th, 2008 at 5:41 AM Thanks for the video Torley! I really didn’t know you could run by hitting W twice now. · 86 Holocluck Henley Says: July 27th, 2008 at 6:03 AM It wasn’t mentioned how to stop running via arrow keys. Is it double down-arrow? Or control-R like before the release? How about all this hype about shadows and enhanced lighting effects? Can you do a tutorial about that? Thanks! We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

Frank Ambrose: Updates on the Second Life Grid

26 Responses to “Frank Ambrose: Updates on the Second LifeGrid” · 1 summerseale Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:14 PM “By way of introduction, I'm a recent hire here at the Lab, having joined to lead our global technology team. Specifically I'll be focused on grid infrastructure and our stability initiatives.” /me hands Frank a waterproof parka and football pads. “Welcome, and here is your standard equipment which you’ll be needing starting today.” · 2 Toy LaFollette Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:19 PM does this mean LL will now give free CD’s in each bag of groceries? BTW thanx for deleting my prior post, I was quite serious. · 3 Kyder Ling Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:20 PM Guys, I think he meant AOL as in when AOL was the only real contender when it came to Internet like when their population and usage increased radically. I sure would rather have a guy from AOL than say, net Zero… >_>; · 4 RSS SL Blog: Frank Ambrose: Updates on the Second Life Grid - SLUniverse Forums Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:21 PM [...] SL Blog: Frank Ambrose: Updates on the Second Life Grid Hello, I’m Frank Ambrose, the Senior VP of Global Technology, and I’d like to take this opportunity to let you know about some of the work we’re doing on the Second Life Grid. By way of introduction, I’m a recent hire here at the Lab, having joined to lead our global technology team. Specifically I’ll be [...] More… [...] · 5 MONEY-PYRAMID.COM Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:21 PM Thats coming alot from a person that came from a failing company…. Can you save this company to not go in the way of AOL went? When we log on SL next time will it say: YOU GOT MAIL! · 6 mrcvp207 Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:21 PM Will the wider stability plan of Second Life require us to also upgrade our videocards? · 7 Porsupah Ree Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:21 PM Welcome! Thanks for the introduction. I do hope, within the limits of normal commercial confidentiality, you’ll bring us updates that, at times, are of a technical nature. After all, there’s no shortage of geeks amongst the SL populace, and I know I find it fascinating to learn more about what underlies the grid, and just what can and does go wrong, from a technical perspective. The seldom-accessed assets certainly sounds like a promising avenue. Can you share any stats on what sort of numbers/percentages of assets have lain unused for, say, a year or more? · 8 Aminom Marvin Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:34 PM This has been the blog post I have been waiting for: a talk about what components of SL need improvement and why they fail, what needs to be done and will be done, and what is happening short and long term. While this post talks in broad generals, it tells enough to get a feel for the focus of LL in these areas. Frank, you sound like a man of action, and, if the results follow your words, will be invaluable to LL. Good luck! · 9 Ashelyn Dryke Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:49 PM As long as the asset servers stop frakking up and load the entire inventory, and as long as textures load faster, then I’ll be quite happy.. >.> · 10 Rusalka Writer Says: September 12th, 2008 at 3:52 PM Welcome and good luck. One observation: while transparency is good, invisibility is better. I came to the blog today after a crash, to check the status and see if it was worth trying again. It has been a bad few days in SL. I don’t feel much better being told all the major restarts, upgrades, and meltdowns that are going on at LL. I would feel much better if all that were going on without completely borking the grid and demolishing my business for several days. I hope your experience with building railroads while the train is bearing down on you will help! · 11 Ordinal Malaprop Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:00 PM While I do, really, honestly, love these announcements by people embracing the Laboratory, and love to see all of their ideas of how they are going to Fix The Grid - really, it is very refreshing - I seem to be feeling a little… ennui, now. Perhaps older residents could advise me, if there are any left. Is this something that rises on one’s third birthday, three years of seeing the exact same promises? In any case: please wake me when things work. I have a little sign around my neck, it is quite obvious. · 12 JZ Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:03 PM Well, i am a 4 year believer in Secondlife and I tip my hat to you Frank. Let’s hope something positve DOES come from this undertaking. Lord knows many believers are wishing that this virtual world can be as stable as the RL. Well dream and belive anyways. Good Luck!! You’ll need it :)) · 13 Jessica Hultcrantz Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:10 PM Whatever about old compaines…. As long as things actually gets done and the promises of a more stable grid gets reality instead of just promises, then it’s the right way finally… And please, don’t stay silent and wish us all a happy day with the standard phrase “thank you for your patience” ™ Keep us updated with good technical postings thank you! · 14 nika talaj Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:12 PM Thank you for the initial posting, Frank, hopefully the first of many. And glad to see this hire finally made; LL certainly has been searching for a while! Whatever one may think of AOL and MCI’s service offerings, certainly they have massively scaled networks, and that’s what’s relevant to this hire. I think your hire also represents a significant investment in stability by LL; I cannot imagine that your compensation package is modest. Also, applause for the committment to move away from VPNs … long overdue, for all the reasons you cite. And more. Welcome! · 15 BlckCobra Shikami Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:12 PM After the horrible time from february till july, august was quite promising and things seemed more stable again. But last week has proven that it was just a short break and we are facing a lot of unhappy customers who lost things and lost all faith in LL support and technics and come to us merchants for help (most even don’t bother anymore to submit a ticket because they are tired of the standard responses). It’s crucial for the future of SL that those problems get addressed. It’s frustrating for everyone to deal with those problems. Many merchants spend their online time with replacements and sorting out fraudulent replacement requests because we don’t have any chance to verify those things. LL support tells us merchants not to replace things and at the same time tells customers to ask the merchant for a replacement. This is a horrible situation for many of us. It’s really time for LL to grab the keyboard and redesign certain aspects of the assert, database and communication system to make it a reliable environment. We are talking about a system where people spend a lot of real US$ and EUR not a simple fun game for a few bucks. I wish you and all of us lots of luck and success for the next steps towards more stability and reliability. /me hands you a bullet proof vest Cobra · 16 Ciaran Laval Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:15 PM I’m a tad concerned as to why you’re Frank Ambrose rather than Frank Linden, although we cry out for the Lindens to be Frank, this appears to be a shift in culture. Scalability is a big issue here, a very important part of that is group limits and yet I see no mention of that. We’re in an age of social networking frenzy, the group limits are a serious setback. · 17 Aquarius Paravane Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:49 PM Welcome Frank and thanks for the post and your commitment to server stability. Server stability was greatly improved until a week ago. It would be good to get an explanation of what actually caused the recent outages. It would be better still to see somebody step up and give an equal degree of commitment to fixing the client stability issues that have continued for over a year. Client stability has wrecked user experience on certain platforms which experience the client randomly freezing every few minutes, or crashing randomly every few minutes or crashing the computer it’s running on several times a day when the computer would otherwise run for weeks without being shut down. Regarding assets, the last attempt to clean up “unused” assets resulted in textures and scripts that were in use in products being deleted permanently and irrevocably. Please provide some assurance that this won’t happen again, and explain how assets that have been offloaded will still be accessible when called upon. Texture loading already takes a stupidly long time on some platforms and there is no way to demand that some particular texture be loaded ahead of all the others, for example by clicking on it. It would also be good to get a commitment to preventing content theft while allowing content creators to move their own creations to and from other 3D platforms. If you get these major issues out of the way then you can actually start to work on improving user experience. · 18 Sindy Tsure Says: September 12th, 2008 at 4:55 PM Welcome to the fun, Frank! I’m also curious why you’re not Frank Linden… You’ve got a “{insert wiki link}” still in there, which I think is supposed to go to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Service_Disruptions#Linden_Network . Maybe. Like others, I’m supportive and glad to hear what you’ve said but it’s sorta stuff we’ve heard before. Hopefully, improved (and expanded) communications will give us more insight into what’s happening. People who can’t make office hours don’t get to hear a lot of it… Can I have a bear? · 19 Vivienne Graves Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:00 PM @16: What makes you think increasing group limits is workable when with the current limits, five out of ten large group IM sessions fail and in order to reduce database load the time group notices are archived has been reduced from one month to two weeks, OR the most recent 200 notices (where it was unlimited)? Those two things in themselves are pretty clear indicators of why increasing group limits just isn’t technically feasible at the moment; hopefully, when the underlying network and database issues have been addressed, it will be, but now is not the time to expect it. · 20 Ciaran Laval Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:10 PM @19 They’re not workable, yet they’re crucial to the operation, hence why I asked why there’s no mention of them, · 21 Relic Starbrook Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:12 PM Welcome Frank! Thank you for your leadership and actions toward a more stable grid! · 22 Relic Starbrook Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:15 PM @ 20 I would be willing to pay for more groups (pass me a bucket of 25 more…for a reasonable price) · 23 Paddy Wright Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:15 PM @15 Cobra I am indeed one of those customers who lost a relatively valuable item during the recent 6 days of turmoil. I thank Cobra for being patient and allowing me a ‘goodwill’ replacement. (the products he/she sells are brilliant) I agree that technical instability more than anything else could wreck SL and its economy faster than any other factor. Consumers will loose faith, in the face of growing and more competent competition. I therefore welcome Frank and his teams initiatives and sincerely wish him well. · 24 Ann Otoole Says: September 12th, 2008 at 5:24 PM So will you be implmenting a true transaction based architecture with a enterprise scale transaction manager along the lines of Tuxedo? So whenever the database or network fails to respond in a time window the transaction is safely rolled back? I.e.; no further failed L$ transactions resulting in loss of money, no further loss of assets on rez or teleport, etc. And how do you intend to stop assets from mysteriously vanishing from the account’s inventory? What measures are in place to log all access to the database that does not happen as a course of normal middleware transactions? Will you provide us with a third tier of inventory for long term asset storage so we can move items off to the slower access compressed archive area? This could help a lot if we could intentionally migrate assets to the “long term parking lot”. Will you add an indicator to the UI that shows when the grid is not feeling well so we don’t have to rely on grid wide blue messages? There is a lot of work to be done but the most important part is a transaction manager that can set an indicator in the UI when the failure rate goes out of tolerance. Nothing like a little +/- 3 standard deviation programming to help stability. · 25 Christos Atlantis Says: September 12th, 2008 at 6:06 PM Hello frank, welcome to grid. I had writen a long harse letter about grid stability and SL, but decided not to post it here, please test your codes before you need 10 days to deploy them and please stop making versions that half the world does not have the computers to run, all of us at SL have lost alot of friends to SL improvement and alot of us have lost business to those improvements. I do hope your job is really about SL stability, true stability not buy the new computer to get stability. Again welcome and I hope you do make a diffrence because so far the SL experience has been mainly unstable. · 26 Renee Faulds Says: September 12th, 2008 at 6:08 PM Glad to hear more promises and good luck. If you would have waited 2 more months to announce this it would have been exactly “one year” ago Phillip said the ‘exact’ same thing. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]

Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 8 fixes (2008-03-27) - RC3 of the new Second Life Simulator

64 Responses to “Havok™4 Beta Preview Update with 8 fixes (2008-03-27) - RC3 of the new Second LifeSimulator” · 1 Sofia Westwick Says: March 27th, 2008 at 3:46 PM Woot! you got the SVC-1520 floating avatar in the Fix! Thanks Andrew! and whoever else worked on that! · 2 Shaun Banshee Says: March 27th, 2008 at 3:49 PM I can never seem to log into H4 servers · 3 Chaos Says: March 27th, 2008 at 3:56 PM We really need to increase the default 10m size prim limit, this will not only reduce lag but make for better builds. using 1680 10m prims to cover a sim in just flooring is not really ideal for lag/combat or physics lag (due to moving from one surface to another) · 4 Shaun Banshee Says: March 27th, 2008 at 3:59 PM @ 3 Chaos If you really must, find an open-sourced mega prim, although personally I don’t think people should use them · 5 Sean Heying Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:04 PM using an infinite or 64kM megaprim to replace the island ocean with sand is a trick I have used in a few regions myself. I am pleased that they will stay, it really helps the feel of the build being able to do this. Thanks! · 6 Malifico Bade Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:06 PM 26 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 26th, 2008 at 6:48 PM @24 Malificio: Could you write up the specifics (maybe with a landmark so we can find the object(s) ) and send it to me inworld so we can take a look? Thanks, Sidewinder I can’t do that because im on TG and can’t view you in-world O: But the sim is Civitas, i normally cleanup the physical prims.. but it’s still bothersome =X · 7 Brandon Shinobu Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:11 PM Hmm, Sidewinder, in looking into the tools to help prevent misuse, you may want to consider that some people (including myself) use megaprims which normally would overhang on a parcel, but instead we cut them down in varous ways usually using prim torture so that they are much smaller. Will the tools take this into account? Also in cases where there is an agreement between two parcel owners that it’s “ok” for the prim to overhang a bit. It might be good to instead allow the option to return a large prim overhanging one’s property (while not actually on it counting against one’s prim limit), instead of forcing prims to be within parcel boundaries. This allows for more flexibility, and I would think make the transition much smoother, since I’m certain more people than myself have prims that may creep over the parcel’s edge. In my case I acquired my neighbors’ permission to do so. · 8 Stephen Zenith Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:11 PM I agree with Chaos - if we’re going to sanction the use of prims larger than 10×10x10m, we should by allowed to create arbitrary sizes and shapes bigger than that, rather than being restricted to the few currently available. · 9 Danball Tureaud Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:15 PM Ack! Someone forgot to close a bold tag! · 10 Ceera Murakami Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:17 PM No, no no… Relaxing the megaprim limit to 64K Meters is a critical mistake. What possible legitimate use can there be for a single prim that streaches as long as 250 SIMS??? (64 K Meters is 250 times 256 Meters) Even a single 100 x 100 M megaprim can blot out a quarter of the mini-map, making it virtually worthless for every resident in the area. So WHY would you permit a prim that could wipe out the ENTIRE mini-map in 250 sims??? Or in 62,500 sims, if it was 64 K M on a side??? There is absoloutely NO valid reason that I can imagine for a megaprim that is more than 256 M x 256M in size. Anything larger crosses sim boundries and is absolutely CERTAIN to screw up other sims or at the very least to overlap other people’s parcels. A person might make use of a 750 M diameter sphere as an artificial skydome, but that would extend into all 8 sims surrounding the one it was in. PLEASE reconsider that choice. · 11 Argent Stonecutter Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:19 PM I think there’s probably a lot of support inside LL for larger prims (correct me if I’m wrong, Sidewinder), but anything beyond cleaning up the existing megaprim situation is going to have to wait until after Havok 4 is deployed. That should be next week, according to other blog entries, so it should be OK to hold off on discussion until mid-April. · 12 Argent Stonecutter Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:20 PM Ceera@10: this is for private islands, where they want to give a whole region a “skybox”. · 13 Ceera Murakami Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:22 PM @Sean in post #5. Tell me, did you personally purchase and pay for all 62,500 of the sims that your 64KM megaprim plane overlaps? What do the neighboring sims see? I somehow doubt that your megaprim fails to render in all those neighboring sims. I’d certainly like to visit a sim where you have done this, so I can see for myself what the impact is. · 14 les Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:22 PM Whao! 64km. That’s one big #*#$ prim! Will prims over 256m be forced phantom? Thanks for being so in tune guys. Good luck bringing it home! · 15 Aminom Marvin Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:25 PM The support for megaprims among builders is HUGE. Some things simply cannot be created by any other way: for example with very novel sculpt use. Now that you are fixing megaprims with Havoc4 (and getting them to work even better!) it would be a great time to allow us users to create megaprims. There is simply no reason not to do so. Eliminate the server-side checks and instead have a client-side check that can be disabled via the “advanced” or “client” menus. It would be similar to “disable camera constraints” except be “disable prim size constraints That should prevent accidental misuse by newcomers. If not, you could have megaprims be set via script to make it available but not _too_ available · 16 Ceera Murakami Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:26 PM Argent @12: So, you’re saying that if I tossed up a 64 KM x 64 KM megaprim on a private sim, that the other private sims that are only two or three sims away on the grid see nothing at all? Or do the sims that use such huge prims have to take themselves entirely off the map to prevent their overlaps from appearing in their neighbor’s areas? I’ve seen what a 100 x 100 megaprim does to the mini-map in a sim. It isn’t pretty. I can’t imagine what it would be like if someone several islands away dropped one of those monsters in my vacinity. · 17 Aminom Marvin Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:27 PM Ceera Murakami (post 13): he isn’t talking about using it on mainland. He is talking about using it for a private island one entirely owns, to make sand in the surrounding void water regions. · 18 Aminom Marvin Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:29 PM Ceera: also yes, if there is one sim, then a gap, then another sim, then EVERYTHING on one sim is invisible to the other. This includes megaprims, but also if you set render distance to 512 meters and try to look at the island, you will see nothing. · 19 Mina Dawn Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:31 PM Where can we find Linden Labs’ policy on Megaprims? As in, who can use them, where they can be used, and what sizes? · 20 Chilko Tardis Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:35 PM Posted to: http://teenslblog.com/2008/03/restrictions-on-megaprims-to-be-relaxed-with-havok4 Good move! An increase of the normal prim size would rule! · 21 Drako Nagorski Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:36 PM I know this isnt relative, but i got a couple suggestions for future projects: 1) NO MORE SCULPTIES! Just have a new asset that imports 3d-max and other similar filetypes. have them show up in SL exactly how they do in the program they were made in. more faces = more faces here. 2)climbing! its quite annoying to have to fly up surfaces, so have a climbing animation where the avatar attaches to an object and can walk around on it (angle 45 degrees) kinda like linking the avi to the object. use the E key to climb up a surface or attach to it (or a new key somewhere… you have 26 to use :P) (think about it, being able to walk around on a space ship thats barrel rolling :P) · 22 Darien Caldwell Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:37 PM Can anyone provide a SURL to a region using a 64k megaprim? I really have a hard time understanding the usage. · 23 Ceera Murakami Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:38 PM Aminom@18: Well… OK… I’ve developed a few “stands by itself” sims, as well as plenty where the private sims owned by one person touched edge to edge with sims owned by someone else. I had assumed that in those “one island on its own” sims, the other nearby sims had elected not to be seen by their neighbors. I suppose that if a gap of one or more sims, or a corner to corner contact, is sufficent in itself to render the sims invisible and intangible from each other, it may be more tolerable than I had thought. But as I said, there’s plenty of sims that are private sims, but which are NOT seperated by gaps like that, and are not all owned by the same parcel owner. I would hope that in any instance where the entire contiguous block of touching sims is not owned by the owner of the outsized prim, these would still be banned, just like they should be on the Mainland. · 24 Sean Heying Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:39 PM @ Ceera in 13 and others…. When you use a 64kM megaprim the action on the minimap and on surrounding SIMs is different to what you think. First. when you are a private island and have no connecting islands there is no overlap into other SIMs, the grid map in terms of islands is not contiguous, what you rez on one island will not be seen in others… there is INFINATE space between islands. I have an infinate megaprim out now, please look at your minimap and see if you can see it. Look outside your house for it. It is isolated to the SIM I put it in. In terms of minimap, when you have a prim that large you hollow out the centre to place it over the island, it dissapears off the minimap, totally invisible. · 25 Helion Dragonash Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:43 PM I would like to see mega prims have th ability to be hollowed out and not still me physcal, with a 10m prim you can hollow them out and walk through them, you cant do this with mega prims and it would greatly assist in building on sims if that were possible. · 26 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:43 PM @3 Chaos: Large flooring is one of the uses of existing megaprims and part of the reason that we are continuing to allow them to exist. /Sidewinder · 27 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:44 PM @6 Malifico: Thanks - I’m TG cleared and will take a look as soon as possible. /Sidewinder · 28 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:46 PM @7 Brandon: None of the work to define such tools has started, other than discussions over time. If you have a proposal, please feel free to send me a notecard and I’ll forward it. This is not something that has any timeline or priority set, but something that was talked about as part of the rationale for this position… /Sidewinder · 29 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:48 PM @10 Ceera: There is no current upper limit that I am aware of on megaprim size. There are cases where extremely large prims are used for artificial horizons. As I said in the blog post, the tools to implement a hard cut to a lower size are already built and may be implemented in one deploy cycle, so we are going to watch to see how this goes and make some determination later on. /Sidewinder · 30 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:49 PM @14 Les: We have decided to not implement a “phantom over this size” algorithm at this time. What we have done is to implement *some* cap on size that we believe will not interfere with existing builds as a starting point, with the hooks in place to something more substantial going forward. /Sidewinder · 31 Urantia Jewell Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:52 PM @25 Helion, Havok4 has made it possible to hollow a non-phantom megaprim and walk/fly through it. I’ve tested this and it works but only in Havok4 enabled regions. · 32 Sean Heying Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:52 PM @ 25 Helion Hollowed out megaprims in Havok4 work, you can set them to non-phantom and stand inside them. Two prim houses are now possible. · 33 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:55 PM To All: Megaprim “policy”? This is somewhat of a misnomer to me. Here are the established points you might want to consider: 1) What people do and build in Second Life is governed by the Terms Of Service. These are posted on the web site. Violations of the TOS may be reported using the abuse reporting tools in the viewer. If someone builds a structure that is believed to violate the terms of service (never mind whether it is built with one megaprim or a large linked set of small prims), it can be reported, and if it is found to be in violation of the TOS, the governance team will address the issue as they see appropriate. I do not believe that there is a need for a megaprim policy past this statement, as it encapsulates both the freedom to be creative in Second Life and the limits described in the TOS that govern acceptable behavior. 2) This is a stabliity project, and not a features project. “Repeat after me” There will be no new megaprim manipulation or editing tools delivered as part of the Havok4 update project. 3) Any new features in this area would need to be part of some future initiative. Any such enhancements have not be discussed, designed and are not on the current roadmap. 4) These statements do not say that we will do something in this area. They do not say that we won’t do something in this area. These statements clarify that the future on this is unknown, and that any build tool capability enhancements are explicitly not part of this project. I hope that this helps to clarify how the megaprim question fits into the larger picture of Second Life. Regards, Sidewinder · 34 Tiny Mind Says: March 27th, 2008 at 4:57 PM Wow! So you are saying that finally I will not slowly ’sink’ down to ground-level while floating in an H4 Sim even while wearing umpteen “Flying Assistant” objects like before? Well, there’s a first. TM… Mark of Excellence. · 35 Hal Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:08 PM So we have to suffer ridiculously large megaprims so that a few builds don’t have to remove one large prim and replace it with 4, 8 or maybe 16 smaller ones? The poor things, what a hardship that would be for them… We certainly need megaprims to stay, but 64km ones, that’s crazy! · 36 Andrew Fenn Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:08 PM I think you’re missing the bigger issue here in that there are insufficient tools to control landscape and atmosphere in a region. If content creators had the right tools we wouldn’t need big prims for skyboxes. Prims shouldn’t be used for skyboxes or water. There is obviously a problem here that’s not getting solved. This is a virtual world but why are you restricting it to real life conditions? You could get rid of a whole lot of space issues by adding portals and allowing people to have their own instances inside one. In other words, a world within a box. · 37 you thoughts please... Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:16 PM A feature that would be of great use would be to enable a “ghost function” to prims. As many are aware, currently when a moving prim is focussed on by the client, the camera follows it, another example would be where vendor boxes, tip jars etc are visible but not accesable due to the presence of a prim in front(regardless of its alpha, phantom state, touch state etc) Some prims such as club lighting beams cause massive confusion to camera views, having a simple check box in edit(LSL activation in time….) would be a massive upgrade and I expect relatively simple to implement. 10×10x10m is also like building with famous brand interlocking plastic toy blocks, scale and perspective in SL are underestimated factors(take the awesome greenies for example), allow prims over 10m to be dropped and edited and prepare to be amazed. Many of the larger builds that employ the megaprims are rather crude due to the limits on editing these objects and the small collection of primitive megaprim shapes/sizes to choose from(eg 20×20x60m cylinder) Cheers. · 38 IAm Zabelin Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:22 PM Although I find megaprims extremely useful due to their efficiency, personally I question using an ‘infinite’ size megaprim … no matter how the grid (currently) resolves it I consider that irresponsible. · 39 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:39 PM Wow, this is an unexpected turn of events, and I applaud the decision, even knowing perfectly well how megaprims are so often used by griefers on the mainland. Still, griefing is a social issue that should be dealt with social mechanisms, not technical tools. Once the mainland gets outsourced to some organisation that can take good care of it, the griefing problem is solved · 40 Whisper Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:42 PM Not all builders support megaprims. Those who do are just more whiney and vocal than the majority. · 41 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:58 PM @35 Hal: There was no limit before… Now there is one… It can be adjusted easily… /Sidewinder · 42 Darek Deluca Says: March 27th, 2008 at 5:58 PM Thank you for allowing large mega prims. I use many, including the 64k for horizon effects. (No, i don’t affect other sims, no other sims beside me). However!, You have to consider 1 thing. Come up with a way to Edit/Delete them if you make them hollow, lol, i had to get Linden help when i made a 1024×1024x100 hollow. You can’t reach it anymore! (I put a Listen/die script in it the next time.) And it would be nice to be able to go above 10m or at least make some more sizes for mega prims. Alot of us would LOVE 20m & 30 meter spheres!! · 43 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:03 PM @42 Darek: Interesting suggestions as future possibilities… No new features for manipulating or creating megaprims will ship as part of this project /Sidewinder · 44 Ryu Darragh Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:10 PM That’s what the Jira “New Feature Request” is for, folks So, go forth and Jira “New Feature Request: Edit Limits to be extended to 256.000m (256) and 4096.000m (4096) ” ! I, for one, would not be unhappy to see the size of new “large” prims capped at 256m. · 45 Ryu Darragh Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:12 PM Grr.. silly comments parser.. it deleted my brackets “New Feature Request: Edit Limits to be extended to 256.000m (256, size) and 4096.000m (4096, height) ” ! · 46 Isablan Neva Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:21 PM So, just for laughs…an actual Havok4 question: Sidewinder, is there a “loose” schedule for full deployment on the grid? · 47 badb0y dagger Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:23 PM WOW are u kinding me!!! LLs are gonna have a maintenance work this coming Saturday, 29 March, 4:00 a.m. - 6:00 a.m. Pacific time DA DAY OF MY WEDDING!!! wow not only did yall mess up my friends list,my invtory, and my media player u r now gonna mess up my wedding wow THANK YOU VERY MUCH LL U GUYS R DA BEST · 48 Argent Stonecutter Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:27 PM Tiny@34: if you sink while hovering in a Havok 4 sim using the latest version of my Flight Feather or Cyberflight, let me know. · 49 Sean Heying Says: March 27th, 2008 at 6:45 PM Yay, the sliding smaller avatar issue is finally tested as 100% nailed as far as I am concerned. The molasses problem still is unreproducible, but given Sidewinders previously asked question about if I were in his shoes, and knowing the way people love to complain, would I deploy… I would. It’s rare as in twice in an 10 hour day and it’s short lived. I am glad the swimmer is still being looked at, this is pretty important to us Kids. The end of blitz orbits attacks is getting closer day by day \o/ @ Argent, where can we pick up flight feathers? I have been handing out an old one for a long time to newbs and would love to update the one I give em. @ badb0y, it’s only phone support and I am sure that your wedding day will be perfect. May you find every happiness. · 50 Kraelen Redgrave Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:05 PM I currently have a large round house. The round part consists of an elevated floor and a roof with windows around most of the sides. I had to use 8 tapered cubes for the roof, 7 for the floor, and 11 cubes for the windows, for a grand total of 26 prims. If I could have used 20*20*20M prims I could have cut that down to 5 prims. For legitimate rational builds surely larger prims would be beneficial, and in many cases increase performance. Perhaps allowing everyone to build upto 32*32*32 prims would be a nice starting point, until you work out the finer details of exactly what everyone needs. · 51 Kraelen Redgrave Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:12 PM @50 Sorry, correction: that should have been 16 for the roof and 15 for the floor, 11 for the windows, giving a total of 42 prims… It’s 2:12 AM here… I’m tired · 52 Vincent Nacon Says: March 27th, 2008 at 7:19 PM 64km? O_o 512m is all I’d ask for but geez…. I mean sweet! Now I’m having mad mad ideas with the new scale limit. · 53 Feynt Mistral Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:00 PM @21 Drako I’ve discussed the reason behind sculpties with Qarl, and he said he would have liked to have put in a real model format, but they can’t be streamed. The sculpted prim technique is something he had come across in previous work, so he knew how to do it for SL, and the framework to stream sculpted prim maps is in place already (streaming textures). There are reportedly a few groups working on a streaming model format, but nothing is concrete at the moment. I myself know of a theoretical way to transmit an OBJ format model across the network, but it’s possible that it’d still be unfeasibly large and take an unreasonable amount of time. A single model with 1024 verts can be rather large, much larger than a simple 32×32 pixel texture, when you take into account each face is represented by 3 sets of vertices (9 numbers in total), there’s normals for each vertex, UV coordinates, etc. As for the theoretical 64k prim limit, all I can say is woah. I’d have to agree with the other folks decrying this in that it’s too much freedom. I would accept that as a viable size if Andrew’s previous suggestion on steadfast build restrictions onto parcels you don’t own were put into place. I believe he suggested that if you tried to build a prim bigger than the parcel, Havok4 could treat the edges of the parcel as a solid wall and prevent the prim from passing it. Likewise if you put down an object that extended onto another person’s property it would nudge it back onto yours. In this case, if someone tried putting down a 64k prim on the mainland in their 512m^2 parcel, Havok should say, “to hell with that” and return it. · 54 Whisper Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:04 PM mmm not sure what has happened on the main grid in balance, but the airplane script i’ve been working on for 4 weeks has now started to do some strange things. Have you guys been playing with llSetVehicleFloatParam( VEHICLE_BUOYANCY, param ) ? My plane now flys up much more easily, in fact almost unstoppable. · 55 Argos Hawks Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:19 PM THANK YOU! I’m thrilled that you stopped for a minute, logged in, and actually looked around to see how people were using something before dropping the axe on it. Everytime a megaprim debate pops up, people talk about replacing the sky with a giant sphere on private islands that doesn’t affect any other region. I’m also thrilled that Havok 4 is coming along so well and hope to see it gridwide soon. Along with giving us a rough idea of when we may see Havok 4 on the grid, can you give us an estimate on when we might see a Mono early adopter program? People are trying to plan how to manage their sims and estate expansion, and knowing some estimates for major milestones would be greatly appreciated. · 56 Whisper Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:20 PM turned out to be an attachment i was wearing whew! · 57 Whisper Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:22 PM @53 sounds like a plan. · 58 Darling Brody Says: March 27th, 2008 at 9:44 PM Something very anoying about the current Havok4 Implementation of mega prims is that the size is not locked. So if you accedently alter it, the prim shrinks back to a 10×10. It was much better when the size parametors were locked to avoid accedently turning your region sized floor into a bath mat sized prim. - hay I am an IoW dragon, 10×10 is a bathmat for me Darling · 59 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 27th, 2008 at 10:14 PM @53 Feynt and others: I believe there is no limit on size in the current release simulator (might get corrected tomorrow but I’m pretty sure this is true…), so why all the fuss about “the limit is too large”. This is just a stop-gap to have some limit, where one did not exist before… It is easy to reduce an upper bound if it turns out in practice to be too large. From what I understand, “huge mega” griefing is not a large problem source in the current version, so why would it magically get worse with the new simulator. If it does turn out to be an issue, it’s really easy to clamp later - although remember - the current thinking is that with reasonable administrative controls this limit becomes essentially unneeded. /Sidewinder · 60 Joe Moudeira Says: March 28th, 2008 at 12:28 AM I would really like (all) the huge prims to stay. There are alot of people that own island sims, who would not bother anyone ever with these prims. I’ve experimented alot with the largest ones, and really cool things can be done with them….one can create a land that looks endlessly big by using the largest size. Why restrict people from using them and creating nice content with this? At least on islands people should have freedom to use these · 61 PJ Gibbs Says: March 28th, 2008 at 4:05 AM “there are a few in this list that were fixed without jira tracking #'s…” You know, to follow ITIL best practices, and to make your own lives easier in the long run, you really should bring an end to that practice… Just a word of advice from a 3rd line support professional… =) · 62 Sidewinder Linden Says: March 28th, 2008 at 7:08 AM @61 PJ: You’ll notice there are actually none in that category… the caveat was there from a few that had been done this way a while back and I’ve been copying and pasting the text /Sidewinder · 63 Sascha Says: March 28th, 2008 at 8:55 AM WEll i have a strange problem here on my havok, rotating objects are just stopping to rotate after some time, since they aren’t made by me i have to take them back to inv and rez again. Guess it has to do something with energy?? · 64 Belos Seiling Says: March 28th, 2008 at 9:00 AM I’ll be looking forward to editable megaprims, so that I - and many other residents - may be able to have nice buildings to a reduced number of prims. It is not easy to build a nice house floor or a wall with a megaprim 1 meter thick. With this possibility the surplus prim count can be used to enhance the surroundings of the buildings. More trees and flowers. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. Name (required) Mail (will not be published) (required) Website Need help? Please visit our Support Page. [lien] [EN]